German Wire Hair Pointer V Cats
- Thread starter Cut+Squirt
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jamross65
Well-Known Member
Am I getting soft or does anyone else appreciate the nature of a well trained dog?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjE3nQ3u7Do&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKRJma0cEI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjE3nQ3u7Do&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnKRJma0cEI&feature=related
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Not sure what those videos prove. My dogs would kill cats but at the same time are broken to ferrets stock etc. Infact one of my dogs pulled a roe kid that leapt up in front of him(the lurcher), But then proceeded to lick the wound and curl round it to keep it warm.
Most dogs are fine with young animals unless the chase instinct kicks i before they know what it is.
Most dogs are fine with young animals unless the chase instinct kicks i before they know what it is.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
You have kind of answered your own question with your post. You have obviously never 'broken' your dog to cats. And as far as the chase instinct is concerned, there was plenty of opportunity for that to happen with the Mouflon kid in the videos.
Instinct is one thing but over-riding that instinct with proper training is perfectly feasible.
Instinct is one thing but over-riding that instinct with proper training is perfectly feasible.
not got my point really I can introduce anything to my dogs and tell them to leave it and they will, much like those mouflon kids and that dog, but if a cat jumps up they will grab it! The chase instinct doesn't come into it without the surprise aspect
Lets see the video of that dog hunting hard for a wounded fox at 500yards when a cat jumps out in front and see what it does! If its worth its salt it will grab it cos there is no way a dog would let a possible wounded animal escape(i'm not talking about seeing a deer/cat in the distance but jumping right in front of it).
Lets see the video of that dog hunting hard for a wounded fox at 500yards when a cat jumps out in front and see what it does! If its worth its salt it will grab it cos there is no way a dog would let a possible wounded animal escape(i'm not talking about seeing a deer/cat in the distance but jumping right in front of it).
jamross65
Well-Known Member
I assume from this response you don't train dogs to hunt birds, rabbits or hares?
They are trained to do exactly what you say you cannot get yours to do! Gundogs will flush game from under their noses, and not only be trained to leave it but in some cases be trained to react in a particular way, like drop to flush in the case of spaniels. There is absolutely no reason why a GWP could not be trained to do the same thing. I can stand picking up at the pheasants and see hares run by me within 3ft and my labs will barely give it a second glance!
They are trained to do exactly what you say you cannot get yours to do! Gundogs will flush game from under their noses, and not only be trained to leave it but in some cases be trained to react in a particular way, like drop to flush in the case of spaniels. There is absolutely no reason why a GWP could not be trained to do the same thing. I can stand picking up at the pheasants and see hares run by me within 3ft and my labs will barely give it a second glance!
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
I have periodically looked back on this thread since starting it some time ago, and intrigued that it is still growing. . . . . . So just an update on how Heidi my GWP is progressing. Firstly, in respect of her pussy chasing things havn't changed much, next doors cat remains as lucky and as taunting as Heidi is persistent at trying to catch it. I however try to remain optimistic that my training will pay dividends in the future. On a more positive note she recently accompanied me stalking.........I say stalking, more a walk through the woods with the dog and rifle, as it turned out I didn't see a beast but Heidi gave a strong point into the wind close to a stand of Sitka where I had seen a doe a few days before. Promising!!!
She is now walking just in front of me and stopping and staying when asked to do so.
jamross65, some comical clips you have posted there.
She is now walking just in front of me and stopping and staying when asked to do so.
jamross65, some comical clips you have posted there.
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swatty
Well-Known Member
ive no experience of gwps and cats but in the last 12 months my cocker has taken the same dislike to the point that if she catches one by accident that is its dead before it knows it i can stop her on any game on the whistle but not cat she hates them with a passion yet before she never even looked at them
As it happens I do train dogs to use myself for pheasant and rabbit, My lurcher not so.....but my point being that although he is not that well trained, and will kill deer and fox given the chance he would happily lie there and let all those animals and more jump all over him with out a second thought of catching them(I've met many more that would do the same)........That video does not "show" the benefits of a well trained dog, AS, I have a poorly trained dog that will do those things. Young animals introduced to a dog in controlled circumstances prove nothing in relation to this thread.
As you point out your well trained dogs won't look twice at a hare on a drive(but then they are at your feet) (also labs and cockers are not GWP's). If they also ignore them while picking up birds then you have well trained dogs.
My lurcher will stay and watch deer when at heel but once free running will grab them.....again those videos don't show that dogs reaction while hunting. I have had my friends pet rats running round him in the house, He even has been used to remove a rat or two from people houses(pest control in previous job) and regular ratting in farm yards, he knew to leae them when my friend handled them and let them down. His sit stay is good so I have bolted rats at him but forgot to release him before and they have run straight past him.
I'm not disputing whether that dog is well trained or not, only that those videos do't prove it. As said before if that dog can ignore a cat while hunting for a wounded fox in heavy cover then excellent, its more than I would expect mine to do! (Mine are expected not to switch lines and start hunting a fresh line but if it comes out in front of them)
They are nice clips though, just prove nothing
As you point out your well trained dogs won't look twice at a hare on a drive(but then they are at your feet) (also labs and cockers are not GWP's). If they also ignore them while picking up birds then you have well trained dogs.
My lurcher will stay and watch deer when at heel but once free running will grab them.....again those videos don't show that dogs reaction while hunting. I have had my friends pet rats running round him in the house, He even has been used to remove a rat or two from people houses(pest control in previous job) and regular ratting in farm yards, he knew to leae them when my friend handled them and let them down. His sit stay is good so I have bolted rats at him but forgot to release him before and they have run straight past him.
I'm not disputing whether that dog is well trained or not, only that those videos do't prove it. As said before if that dog can ignore a cat while hunting for a wounded fox in heavy cover then excellent, its more than I would expect mine to do! (Mine are expected not to switch lines and start hunting a fresh line but if it comes out in front of them)
They are nice clips though, just prove nothing
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have said they will ignore hares/rabbits when out hunting as well, as that is what they have been trained to do and not just at my feet.
To just use one of the words in your post, 'expect' a dog to do exactly what it has been either trained or not trained to do. In the case of GWP's not being 'trained' to ignore cats, I would 'expect' them to have a go, just like a lot of other dogs would do also.
To be honest the clips were not really meant to 'prove' anything, just to show that often there is an expectation of a particular breeds nature. I am suggesting that just about any dog of any breed if trained properly from the start should be able to curb what would be a natural instinct as hunters.
My own GWP has not been trained to behave in the same way as my labs or cockers as she is only used for finding shot or wounded deer. Therefore, I would 'expect' her to have a go at a cat or anything else that ran from her and she was sent after.
Interesting and thought provoking thread the GWP is a specilised breed any atempt too supress its hunting instinct is simply wrong it should be harnessed and used correctly, the sharpness tests in breeds early formation ,coupled with strict breeding regimes, and the breed master ensured a noble dog and hunting companion ,able too tackle wild boar, fox ,feral/wild cat etc with zest,its not for the novice or anyone whos not got breeds welfare and future at heart,too compare him with the lab and springer is foolhardy .Many have also made the mistake off thinking the gsp is a coat variation off him.and soon find out how wrong they are,the wire is a superb dog when properly trained,socilised,bred,fed etc , its only when you try take shortcuts/dnt do your homework or fail put the work in that youll get big problems/then the owner starts looking for excuses blaming the dog itself or breeder,if theirs any doubt about getting a gwp, then dnt get one the lab /springer for you, leaving the wire with the owners/breeders who understand the breed and have his wellbeing at heart 
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
Interesting and thought provoking thread the GWP is a specilised breed any atempt too supress its hunting instinct is simply wrong it should be harnessed and used correctly, the sharpness tests in breeds early formation ,coupled with strict breeding regimes, and the breed master ensured a noble dog and hunting companion ,able too tackle wild boar, fox ,feral/wild cat etc with zest,its not for the novice or anyone whos not got breeds welfare and future at heart,too compare him with the lab and springer is foolhardy .Many have also made the mistake off thinking the gsp is a coat variation off him.and soon find out how wrong they are,the wire is a superb dog when properly trained,socilised,bred,fed etc , its only when you try take shortcuts/dnt do your homework or fail put the work in that youll get big problems/then the owner starts looking for excuses blaming the dog itself or breeder,if theirs any doubt about getting a gwp, then dnt get one the lab /springer for you, leaving the wire with the owners/breeders who understand the breed and have his wellbeing at heart
I think you have hit the nail on the head Inverwire................My GWP is the first dog that I have tried to properly train. The last 8 months with her have been trying to say the least. It is only now that i'm starting to see the fruits of my labour. In hindsight I agree completely, not for a novice !!! But would never change her now as she has quickly become an integral and loved part of the family.
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I AM sure youll be street wise with your next wire cadex 100, im really glad your input is paying off, and stuck with it many a wire has ended up rescue or punted from kennel to kennel ,because people not understanding the breed,hope you have many happy yrs hunting, word of caution watch out for the teenage stage around a year or so,when thier aloofness starts kick in, be firm but fair you be fine
limulus
Well-Known Member
My GWP is 8 months old now and finally starting to settle down a bit. Out on her own stalking she's brilliant, steady to heel and sits immediately and stays to a hand command. She heels up if I lead with my right leg and stays if I lead with my left.
For all of this she still has an aggressive button which can be tripped for the most inane reason. Usually its food or attention driven and never towards humans, only other dogs and my dogs at that, friendly as anything when out for her walks.
I have been consistent and firm with her and she has had some serious rollickings when she's kicked off on the other dogs.
A very different dog to a lab but superb at the job she's been bred for and has helped me on to several deer already going on point up to 250-200 yds from a deer.
Wouldnt be without her now but there were times when I did wonder whether she was the right dog for me because of the aggressive streak occasionally rearing its head.
T
For all of this she still has an aggressive button which can be tripped for the most inane reason. Usually its food or attention driven and never towards humans, only other dogs and my dogs at that, friendly as anything when out for her walks.
I have been consistent and firm with her and she has had some serious rollickings when she's kicked off on the other dogs.
A very different dog to a lab but superb at the job she's been bred for and has helped me on to several deer already going on point up to 250-200 yds from a deer.
Wouldnt be without her now but there were times when I did wonder whether she was the right dog for me because of the aggressive streak occasionally rearing its head.
T
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Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
Post a couple of pictures mate. I would be interested to see what your dog looks like now as I think yours and mine are Sisters are they not ??????
limulus
Well-Known Member
I think they are, yes (From Dennis' litter?). Mine is the hairy one of the litter 
As a pup:
View attachment 8171
And now:
View attachment 8172
Much larger than a lab and developing a real thick neck (as well as head!)
As a pup:
View attachment 8171
And now:
View attachment 8172
Much larger than a lab and developing a real thick neck (as well as head!)
Cut+Squirt
Well-Known Member
Cracking looking mutt mate. I notice the same about mine. She was quite gangly for a while but getting heavier set all the time now.
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