HOW RARE ARE RED DEER TWINS
- Thread starter mike243
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mike243
Well-Known Member
I had half a mind that was probably the case, I'm in Norfolk with a lot better weather than most parts of the UK and a greater availability of decent feed year round and the hinds being in better condition, would that be part of the reason or just a complete rareity that could happen anyehere
sikamalc
Administrator
Mike,
I do not have access to Red deer in your part of the world, but what you have said is possibly helping to produce a double calve birth. I have a lot of experience with Red deer in Scotland, and its rare to see twin births on Reds. But then the environment and weather is far different to where you are stalking in Norfolk.
I remember reading somewhere that on very rare occasions a Red hind will take on an orphaned calf, not that I have any record for myself seeing this. On highland ground in the winter, one needs to be careful, as quite often with a group of hinds, the calves are not always next to their mothers. It pays to watch sometimes, before pulling the trigger.
I do not have access to Red deer in your part of the world, but what you have said is possibly helping to produce a double calve birth. I have a lot of experience with Red deer in Scotland, and its rare to see twin births on Reds. But then the environment and weather is far different to where you are stalking in Norfolk.
I remember reading somewhere that on very rare occasions a Red hind will take on an orphaned calf, not that I have any record for myself seeing this. On highland ground in the winter, one needs to be careful, as quite often with a group of hinds, the calves are not always next to their mothers. It pays to watch sometimes, before pulling the trigger.
Deerkeeper2
Well-Known Member
I discussed this with another Deerkeeper a few years ago, at that time, between us, we had witnessed over two thousand red deer calvings. He had seen one instance of twins, I had never seen it. These were high performing park and farm deer. Since then, I have probably seen another few hundred and still have never seen twins.
What isn’t unusual is allosuckling where a female will allow another female’s calf or fawn to suckle. This is actually quite common in fallow.
I suspect most cases of ‘twins’ in the larger deer is actually allosuckling but true twins in fallow does seem to be getting more common. Each year in my circle of contacts we see a handful of fallow does shot in March with very well developed twins inside them that look like they could well have continued to full term and live birth.
What isn’t unusual is allosuckling where a female will allow another female’s calf or fawn to suckle. This is actually quite common in fallow.
I suspect most cases of ‘twins’ in the larger deer is actually allosuckling but true twins in fallow does seem to be getting more common. Each year in my circle of contacts we see a handful of fallow does shot in March with very well developed twins inside them that look like they could well have continued to full term and live birth.
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Agree with this, I regularly see hinds with two followers but largely assume they are not all related, the only time I would definitively say twins would be if at embryo stage, which in 12+years of wild norfolk/suffolk red stalking I’ve yet to see
mike243
Well-Known Member
when I was speaking to the landowner about it I said to him that it was more likely to have adopted, for the want of a better word, the 2nd calf, red hind calves regularly stay with their mothers even after the mother has had her next calf, maybe the yearling daughter produced the 2nd calf and was either killed or a poor mother so granny took it on as it were, they have always been alone when I have seen them, the 3 of them are definately what you could call a family group, wheather related or not, she has definately done a good job raising them, her and both calves were in good order
Moray Outfitting
Well-Known Member
I have seen quite a few twins in my tme, a long time. I believe they are actualy twins as they were seen regularily. Yes You will get a herd of hinds leaving all their calves in a crech with 2/3 hinds looking after them. J
It's pretty easy to work out just check the foetuses in the hinds. I had to check for twins and sex for a few years after reports of fallow having more twins now and this causes part of the overpopulation from stalkers in different areas. I can report that twins happened in 1 to 2 percent of fallow does and this was in a just over 300 fallow doe sample. It's looking like I'm going to have to sex the foetuses again over the next few years because of reports of more does than bucks being born and my employer wants to know for population modeling.
I think it would be valuable data if some stalkers on here agreed to collect data on all the foetuses from deer shot. For it to be valid it would have to be on all female pregnant deer culled by a person not just a stalker reporting a single occurrence because that could skew the results.
paulbshooting
Well-Known Member
Don't have reds here in my part of Hampshire but seeing fallow with twins and roe with triplets. The crops and habitat are perfect and the deer are always in excellent condition, so perfect for growing deer. Also rutting habitats seem to be prolonged too.
@Oldstalker will have a typically nuanced view on this.
mole trapper
Well-Known Member
I've got a pair on one of my places at the moment they are doing really well too.
In a number of hundred red hinds on one of the estates I used to stalk, and which @Ronin and @JH83 both know, I shot two hinds pregnant with twins. In the former instance the foeti were about 6 inches long and the latter, when asked to continue the cull beyond the end of February (the then season) and doing so under a local damage permission from the late owner, the foeti were near fully grown and with spotty coats ready for birth. In both cases the foeti were of equal size and appeared to be viable. In the same timeframe (about thirty years) I shot many hinds on the Shap Fells and never once observed twin foeti. The difference though was 1000 feet (and more) of elevation, different geology, and significantly differing performance in the two herds both as to weight and fecundity.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
On a similiar note , Elk , a close relation to Red Deer , rarely have twins . Moose and White-Tailed Deer , on the other hand , have a high percentage of twin births . Not exactly relevant , but an interesting difference .
AB
AB
Hinds will adopt an orphaned calf its far from unusual . I had one sika hind that had two regular and three once , she blew the who super shy sika thing to the wind that one ,couched on my lower lawn often .and was cool to come in real close to the dogs in the kennel at night
But reds ? in a decent heard you can kill the hind and its highly likely the calf will be adopted by another hind from the group , far less fussy over this than sheep i think
But reds ? in a decent heard you can kill the hind and its highly likely the calf will be adopted by another hind from the group , far less fussy over this than sheep i think
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