How safe is a "safety"

[Foxyboy43]

Assuming the thing is mechanically sound the following applies.
All firearms are dangerous, they’re designed that way.
Their most important safety component is the user.
The trigger is safety critical.
A firearm always discharges in the direction in which it is pointed. This is never mentioned as a safety consideration but it prevents a hell of a lot of accidental discharges from becoming accidents.
The purpose of the “safety” on a firearm is to insert an extra deliberate action into the firing sequence to reduce the incidence of accidental discharges which would otherwise occur if the safety were not fitted.

Ahah! “Mechanically Sound” you say? Way back in the very dark days of the 70s I happened to live in a Drive with 28 houses just outside Belfast. Only me and my next door neighbour were not in the police (RUC) and because of my obsession interest with guns I was the unofficial “armourer“ for each and every one of them. So every time their regular kit inspection came round I was handed a Ruger .357 Magnum (usually with all 6 chambers err, occupied) with a plea to clean it well for the dreaded inspection. Most of these had not seen cleaning since my last efforts and many of them were more dangerous (through blocked barrels) to the shooter than to anyone standing in front of them.
All were “mechanically sound” but the human element left much lacking!

 

[Bowland blades]

Ahah! “Mechanically Sound” you say? Way back in the very dark days of the 70s I happened to live in a Drive with 28 houses just outside Belfast. Only me and my next door neighbour were not in the police (RUC) and because of my obsession interest with guns I was the unofficial “armourer“ for each and every one of them. So every time their regular kit inspection came round I was handed a Ruger .357 Magnum (usually with all 6 chambers err, occupied) with a plea to clean it well for the dreaded inspection. Most of these had not seen cleaning since my last efforts and many of them were more dangerous (through blocked barrels) to the shooter than to anyone standing in front of them.
All were “mechanically sound” but the human element left much lacking!

in a time when pistol shelves were fitted in the lavatory room and left loaded by the bed , i would not be so keen to have one in bits for a good clean either unless i had a spare one i could leave loaded .

 

[Foxyboy43]

in a time when pistol shelves were fitted in the lavatory room and left loaded by the bed , i would not be so keen to have one in bits for a good clean either unless i had a spare one i could leave loaded .

Funny old times indeed. I know of two occasions when Protection Officers forgot they had left their “toys“ hanging on the coat rack in the gents loos in Stormont (NI’s Westminster).

 

[wabbit warren]

I may be misunderstanding your post, but are you saying that your gun fired on release of the safety catch (in which case I hope you got it checked out by a gunsmith), or simply that the sound of the catch caused the fox to pause (so not actually "dead" in its tracks) for long enough for you to get a shot off?

yes sorry me releasing the safety stopped the fox in its tracks the shot that followed a split second after stopped it for good
but at that range you wouldn't of thought you'd have heard the safety coming off on a tikka

 

[ejg]

Apart from your usual denigration of all things Blaser now extended to include their owners inability to to recognise that a chambered round with a cocked bolt does not equate with a safe rifle. What evidence do you have for brainwashing/hype and that they actually believe any of this codswallop.

What is the difference between a a hunter with any other make of rifle who has also chambered a second round... "just in case. In this moment the rifle is cocked, there is no safety and the hunter is occupied following his running animal ... handling the rifle in the fire condition."

Why is it a big issue with a Blaser shooter and not for any other hunter?

I wholeheartedly agree with the unsafe aspect of a light trigger on a hunting rifle, way too many opportunities for disaster.

Fact is a blaser 98 does not have a safety feature, just cock-uncock. Bit like bolt open - bolt closed, except you have a safety on a bolt action. So for the hunter who wants to be ready at a driven hunt etc. not all will want to cock a slippery wet rifle and therefore just leave it cocked. A safety is much easier to switch from safe to fire. Anyway I did not come up with this... it came up in a discussion with a friend who came hunting with us two weeks back. It seems to be known in his circles. He is involved with Wild & Hund since many years and started their hunting school. I think the difference is just the physical effort of cocking uncocking vs safety on off. Cock-uncock feature in a blaser is not a safety issue but more how people use it when out and that they are being told time and time again it is a safe rifle....
In your case just don't believe it, just ignore.
edi

 

[Muntybuck5803]

A few points that are all just my opinion

Point 1: Always treat a firearm as loaded, no excuses, regardless of if the bolt is in or out or if there is ammunition present or not.

Point 2: Muzzle up or muzzle down is irrelevant as long as you have good muzzle awareness at all times.

Point 3: Terminology seems to state ‘made ready’ or ‘loaded’ which comes from the military terminology as the law and guidelines seem to just refer to ‘loaded’ with no reference to ‘made ready’ (that I’ve seen)
However, it’s largely irrelevant: see Point 1.

Point 4: I have been personal witness to two NDs in the field. Both people who ND’d were using Blasers. Potentially coincidence but just my experience. I’m not knocking Blasers as I’ve never owned one, but I won’t be owning one either after what I’ve seen.

I carry muzzle up with a round in the chamber and the safety on. Always.

 

[paul o']

There's only one type of safety and mine is part of my hand I'm lucky as have two as I can shoot left or right handed the ones that come with the rifle are saft guards I never trust them on their own ! if in doubt keep it out

 

[Muntybuck5803]

There's only one type of safety and mine is part of my hand I'm lucky as have two as I can shoot left or right handed the ones that come with the rifle are saft guards I never trust them on their own ! if in doubt keep it out

 

[Ronin]

The only safety I totally rely on is an empty chamber

 

[Dave_45]

Inserts black hawk down gif*

 

[Bowland blades]

So okay now that the old safety catch puzzle enigma mystery question has been well put to bed(ish) what about when you are crossing ditches/fences/walls etc?

empty gun / chamber , likewise in the argo, ditches, fences whatever etc . " from your gun the cartridges take " just as in a fathers advice! no debates to be had , one event is too much yet still folks getting shot in vehicles crossing fences etc is too high by far .

 

[Heym SR20]

There has been a lot of discussion and differing views on this thread, but fundamentally I think the consensus is.

Don’t rely on the safety

And only chamber a round when you think a shot is imminent

And when it is chambered you need to have full control of where the muzzle is pointing

And when a shot is no longer imminent take the round out of the chamber - it takes but a few seconds to open the bolt and press the cartridge back into the magazine - keep the bolt open whilst crossing the ditch etc

And if you do not need to rechamber a round, close the bolt on an empty chamber, point rifle into a safe backstop and dry fire. If there was a round lurking at least it gone into a safe place.

Don’t just ease the spring. The most dangerous way to carry a rifle is with a chambered round with eased firing in contact with the primer.

Imminent will have different meaning depending upon the situation.

Fundamentally you are anticipating having to raise the rifle and shoot, without having the opportunity to load a round.

This may be as you get into final position to take a hind on the hill, as you enter some ground where there may well be a buck or at the start of trip into territory or situation where your life depends on you being be able to shoot quickly and accurately.

I use the word chambered quite deliberately as of course:

• All guns are always loaded.
• a gun should never be pointed at anything you don’t wish to destroy.

 

[Bowland blades]

shooting say muntjac in most dense woodland and narrow rides without a chambered round ready (safety on) , i doubt you would get a shot with an empty chamber , unless you found a very dumb one, drawing a bead on them is hard enough as it is .

 

[Cris]

Fact is a blaser 98 does not have a safety feature, just cock-uncock. Bit like bolt open - bolt closed, except you have a safety on a bolt action. So for the hunter who wants to be ready at a driven hunt etc. not all will want to cock a slippery wet rifle and therefore just leave it cocked. A safety is much easier to switch from safe to fire. Anyway I did not come up with this... it came up in a discussion with a friend who came hunting with us two weeks back. It seems to be known in his circles. He is involved with Wild & Hund since many years and started their hunting school. I think the difference is just the physical effort of cocking uncocking vs safety on off. Cock-uncock feature in a blaser is not a safety issue but more how people use it when out and that they are being told time and time again it is a safe rifle....
In your case just don't believe it, just ignore.
edi

For stalking the Blaser is a very safe rifle, no question. My own has quite a stiff cocking action and thats fine but for driven hunts I can see people would be tempted to keep the rifle cocked. Bad hadit. On the other hand I have always been paranoid of site lever type safty and would spend most of my time repeatedley checking it had not snagged on somethig stalking. Conversley, yeah much faster to put on and off for a driven hunt.
I would not be seen on a driven day, just looks crazy dangerous to dogs, beaters and fellow shots!

Nobody has mentioned as far as I can see the Manlicher SBS system. Tang mounted role action three stage plus the bolt handle locking position. Probably the best there is of all of them.

 

[John Doe]

Fascinated that so many of you are wandering around with no round in the chamber, I’ll add it to the list of reasons that we have so many deer in the UK! Never yet met a professional lowland stalker or ranger that didn’t stalk with a round in the chamber but what do they know.

 

[alberta boy]

Luckily Blaser owners tend to be that bit smarter than common rifler shooters!

Out of interest what deer rifles auto engage safetys after a shot is fired?

All of my single shots .

AB

 

[alberta boy]

After reading all of the above , I think I may have to get rid of my revolvers , High Walls and various French military bolt actions .

AB

 

[Mungo]

There has been a lot of discussion and differing views on this thread, but fundamentally I think the consensus is.

Don’t rely on the safety

And only chamber a round when you think a shot is imminent

And when it is chambered you need to have full control of where the muzzle is pointing

And when a shot is no longer imminent take the round out of the chamber - it takes but a few seconds to open the bolt and press the cartridge back into the magazine - keep the bolt open whilst crossing the ditch etc

And if you do not need to rechamber a round, close the bolt on an empty chamber, point rifle into a safe backstop and dry fire. If there was a round lurking at least it gone into a safe place.

Don’t just ease the spring. The most dangerous way to carry a rifle is with a chambered round with eased firing in contact with the primer.

Imminent will have different meaning depending upon the situation.

Fundamentally you are anticipating having to raise the rifle and shoot, without having the opportunity to load a round.

This may be as you get into final position to take a hind on the hill, as you enter some ground where there may well be a buck or at the start of trip into territory or situation where your life depends on you being be able to shoot quickly and accurately.

I use the word chambered quite deliberately as of course:

• All guns are always loaded.
• a gun should never be pointed at anything you don’t wish to destroy.

So - if you always treat all guns as loaded, what do you lose by actually loading it?

 

[User00035]

As soon as I'm ready to start scanning for targets, whether it's deer, rabbits, foxes etc, I have a round chambered, safety on. I remove the round to negotiate obstacles, climb into high seats etc. Basically any manoeuvre which necessitates putting the rifle down or carrying it other than muzzle up on a shoulder sling.
I'll drop the mag, open the bolt and slot the chambered round back into the mag and put it in my pocket, then reload as soon as the obstacle has been passed.

 

[Ratel]

What problem? I didn't say that it was a problem. A drop test as a matter of course works for some on here as a safety measure and why not?

A few years back something happened that still makes my blood run cold.
All safeties are lethal on shotguns particularly non auto safeties.
A lady pushed her gun into the slip and it went off, frightened she dropped the gun.
It went off again and the charge hit another lady's knee from a couple of yards, which resulted in leg amputation. This lady is a friend and unfortunately still suffers with "Phantom pain".
With my rifles 3 in 3 out magazine when stalking and as nothing here is likely to kill me (so far) I shove one quietly in when ready to shoot. With shotgun always open on multi gun days until about to shoot.