How should stalkers get paid?

[Heym SR20]

Why should tax payers money be used to fund deer management?

There are plenty of stalkers looking for stalking as recreation etc. Indeed land owners can offer stalking as a form of income. And you can price it accordingly to achieve the required cull.

And the meat has a real value, if marketed properly.

 

[Sampo]

Demand and supply, if there's someone willing to do it for free, it would be the default choice, unless there are exceptions. In most cases, there will be a someone willing to take your permission and find a way to make it profitable as opposed to getting paid for the luxury.

 

[Pete6.5]

In my mind, a stalker is at the minimum just whacking over the odd deer, whereas a manager would be carrying out habitat impact assessments, writing deer mgmt plans, coordinating the stalking effort etc.

I totally agree a deer manager does far more than just shoot deer.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lets hope no one will get back stabbed by other's and lets help each other if only

 

[Woodstalker]

Read this thread with interest. There is obviously a place for all types of deer stalkers but sometimes people with the money to buy out stalking tie up large tracts of land but fail to take enough deer off of the property to control the deer population. This happens frequently in the South East where fallow are a huge problem. Just a heads up to anyone who may come under the High Weald Deer Initiative area of control, two of my permissions have been approached by HWDI staff checking returns who have offered to put the owners in touch with people who will pay money for the stalking. How much I don’t know. Neither of these permissions had ask for money before and had taken venison. I certainly was not impressed with their actions.

 

[GlennUK]

Read this thread with interest. There is obviously a place for all types of deer stalkers but sometimes people with the money to buy out stalking tie up large tracts of land but fail to take enough deer off of the property to control the deer population. This happens frequently in the South East where fallow are a huge problem. Just a heads up to anyone who may come under the High Weald Deer Initiative area of control, two of my permissions have been approached by HWDI staff checking returns who have offered to put the owners in touch with people who will pay money for the stalking. How much I don’t know. Neither of these permissions had ask for money before and had taken venison. I certainly was not impressed with their actions.

Its my understanding that to qualify it is not sufficient to merely have deer on your land, but you need to actively manage woodland, and if i understand correctly it is not 'any woodland' but planted woodlands, happy to be corrected if thats wrong. But the management includes fencing and exclusion of deer form the woodland being protected.

 

[slider]

This is in an existing pilot area. NS have a pilot running from Flanders moss (Stirling) to Bearsden (North Glasgow ) If you are with in that area managing deer you will get a headich payment for each female above the national average. I have been told the average is 3 deer per rec stalker. So after that you get paid. Not sure how much but there has been talk of £50 -£70. Not sure if you keep the deer or hand in to game dealer. The details will be rolled out in mid August and i am told they intend to start this around the 1st of oct this year. My feeling are this will work as i suggested this many years ago to increase culls on the low ground.

NatureScot man told me the payment was on top of the gamekeeper price. Not sure how they would validate it if you were keeping and processing yourself.

Let's hope the dealers don't see this as a subsidy to them and lower their rates!!!

 

[Foxyboy43]

In my mind, a stalker is at the minimum just whacking over the odd deer, whereas a manager would be carrying out habitat impact assessments, writing deer mgmt plans, coordinating the stalking effort etc.

“whacking over the odd deer”
Really?

 

[David Barker]

As i have said many times if you want to increase a cull then you need to pay the price if you don't Rec stalkers will just go out when they feel like it. Or when there freezer is getting empty. Many accuse us of just going out for buck. Me i think its about enjoying our pastime it just so happens that the best weather (SCOTLAND ASIDE LOL) is in the summer and that's when the bucks are in.

 

[Woodstalker]

Its my understanding that to qualify it is not sufficient to merely have deer on your land, but you need to actively manage woodland, and if i understand correctly it is not 'any woodland' but planted woodlands, happy to be corrected if thats wrong. But the management includes fencing and exclusion of deer form the woodland being protected.

I am not aware of any criteria to qualify for HWDI grants and payments other than being in their area of control.They were paying £30 per doe subsidy last season if the correct forms were filled in and photographic evidence supplied. They conduct drone surveys, sort out high seat subsidies and ask for deer impact assessments to be undertaken among other things. What I don’t understand is them quietly promoting recreational stalkers who will pay to shoot, who, in my experience going missing when the days get short, wet and cold and the does need culling. Doesn’t seem like a good way to control deer numbers which is supposedly their aim.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I ran that grant past one of my land owners with new tree's, he is very aware of every grant going, in his case he had already looked into it and dismissed it, although others might find it suits their situation.
So for me it's carry on as normal, shoot as many as I like, take as many clients as I like, and he doesn't want a penny from me, but he know's I get the job done, when he bought the farm 24 years ago (god I can't believe it was that long ago) it hadn't been shot for years, 230 acres, in the first year I took off 35 roe deer, then see started to plant tree's.

 

[Overlay]

Perhaps it's in the difference between 'deer stalking' and 'deer management'?

This is always the great divide.

Paying for stalking go when you want and pay, no stress or pressure worlds your oyster

Job. Put everything up front, pressure on numbers have to jump through all the hoops wind and rain crap areas with high public usage, restrictive areas use, client wants results, of course you should be paid, you earn it

In some quarters this gets horribly mixed up and mis understood

 

[Pete6.5]

There is a big difference between a recreational stalker shooting let's say 30 a year and enjoying what they are doing or a professional being expected to cull 300 a year with subsidies, peoples jobs and profits on the line.
When you start paying for a cull to be carried out that comes with a understanding that results must be met with no excuses if culls aren't met.
When people talk about the money charged for stalking rights these amounts are nothing compared to getting a crop to harvest (trees or arable). So where deer populations have grown to large numbers land owners are realising they are better off to pay to get the job done.
But I still believe there is place for both professional/recreational stalkers.
As for ws1 I believe it's paid for eligible woodland (sssi) for the protection/improvement of these areas against damage caused by deer.

 

[cooksey]

Those of you saying recreational stalkers are part of the answer are right to a point but what you need is a good manager with an understanding of deer on the ground and knowing where the pressure is so that the recreational stalkers can efficiently manage deer for them. There is alot of recreational stalkers who wouldn't know deer damage!

 

[sikamalc]

I've had leases in Scotland with penalty clauses attached over 25 years ago. I never failed to complete the cull, and had this for 10 years, prior to it being sold on. Night licences I have had over the years, which is hard work, although on small parcels of land its not so straight forward.

Personally I cant see any landowner paying for a stalker to shoot or manage deer. If you have it already, consider yourself fortunate, they are not a common breed. Most farmers, landowners are struggling as it is, and farming under our new Labour party is more than likely going to get harder.
There are so many variables within all of this, and no doubt we will have a few permission grabbers and stabbers. Committing to undertake a large cull and keep good records is usually not for a recreational stalker, simply because the time one needs to put in, is not open to them. Most have full time jobs, families to attend, etc. Syndicates are OK as long as everyone is reading off the same page.

Governments come up with all these schemes, and often not with the help of local stalkers, time will tell I guess.

 

[bottletopbill]

Can some one please tell the government that these deer have more brain cells than them.
The deer know where they are safe and stalker's cannot touch them and to many folk's love Bambie.

 

[Donkey Basher]

The 'payment' I take is to be able to go out whenever I want, usually 3-5 times a week during the doe season, & put as many as I need in the freezer & not pay a penny for the privilege.

Yes it costs me for fuel, ammunition & kit, but if I played golf it'd cost me a lot more I'm sure!

I don't want payment for what I consider to be using a hobby I enjoy to help manage wild deer on ground where I would not otherwise be able to go.

We're in the WS1 scheme & the benefit in the first year has been investment by the land owner in a brand new chiller plus a Kubota. We're still waiting for the highseats that have been ordered to turn up though... hopefully have them in time for the doe season

 

[Overlay]

The 'payment' I take is to be able to go out whenever I want, usually 3-5 times a week during the doe season, & put as many as I need in the freezer & not pay a penny for the privilege.

Yes it costs me for fuel, ammunition & kit, but if I played golf it'd cost me a lot more I'm sure!

I don't want payment for what I consider to be using a hobby I enjoy to help manage wild deer on ground where I would not otherwise be able to go.

We're in the WS1 scheme & the benefit in the first year has been investment by the land owner in a brand new chiller plus a Kubota. We're still waiting for the highseats that have been ordered to turn up though... hopefully have them in time for the doe season

Nice result on the the chiller and extraction. Good road ahead

 

[Danum]

I would be very interested to know how much of the payment is actually being used to control deer. I would be amazed if it was 50% with the rest going into landowner’s coffers.

I’m not against the payments. But it is public money and I don’t think it’s being paid out in a way that benefits the majority. Organisations like BASC are banging on about needing more stalkers, why hasn’t the money been used for training. I personally feel there are plenty of people that would like to do more stalking but you can’t always justify the expense so that leads to the next point why isn’t the money used to open up access. Or used for grants for smaller producers to create or improve their own larder facilities.

 

[GlennUK]

I am not aware of any criteria to qualify for HWDI grants and payments other than being in their area of control.They were paying £30 per doe subsidy last season if the correct forms were filled in and photographic evidence supplied. They conduct drone surveys, sort out high seat subsidies and ask for deer impact assessments to be undertaken among other things. What I don’t understand is them quietly promoting recreational stalkers who will pay to shoot, who, in my experience going missing when the days get short, wet and cold and the does need culling. Doesn’t seem like a good way to control deer numbers which is supposedly their aim.

You may be right, my 'understanding' was gained as part of a wider conversation with someone who is involved in managing deer across c.40k acres IIRC. It's entirely possible I got some of the wires crossed. He was definitely talking about a range of management measures which included exclusion using fenced areas, drones, with a significant number of stalkers who were in effect recreational in the sense this was not their occupation.