How to Prep for first Deer Dog

[DeerOnDeck]

I have been stalking for over 10 years now and shooting for easily over double that and whilst I have been around many gundogs of various sorts I have never owned or had my own. Although my folks have had family dogs etc (just not actually mine).

I currently have my eyes set on a Weimaraner Bitch. Partially because I understand they are great deer dogs but also because they appear to have character, be competent bird dogs and are very active. I would like a pooch I can hike, run and hunt with regularly.

All that said... I do not want to stumble in blind. Which is why I am posting here. What preparatory work would you do prior to getting your first deer dog? Would you attend classes first? Ask to take your pals dog out a bit? Buy certain bits first? Ensure you train X, Y or Z immediately once you get the pooch? Undertake a certain course or consult a certain guru? Introduce to Venison or blood at a certain point?

Very interested to hear the thoughts, theories, lessons, mistakes and wisdom here.

Many thanks

 

[bullet chucker]

Read up on the breed 1st. read up on the subject of deer dogs and what can expected of them. How to start and the set backs and pit falls. After that it is all plain sailing?

BC.

 

[.25-06]

As BC says just be aware of what your getting. There are quite a few times I wish the HPR would just be a little more labrador. I will never for get a mates weimaraner refusing to leave the house to go stalking in poor weather, such a fair weather pooch LOL

 

[DeerOnDeck]

Read up on the breed 1st. read up on the subject of deer dogs and what can expected of them. How to start and the set backs and pit falls. After that it is all plain sailing?

BC.

Yeah am and will be trawling the Internet. Any book recommendations?

 

[DeerOnDeck]

As BC says just be aware of what your getting. There are quite a few times I wish the HPR would just be a little more labrador. I will never for get a mates weimaraner refusing to leave the house to go stalking in poor weather, such a fair weather pooch LOL

That's wild! Certainly wouldn't be happy with a dog that gives up in the rain I have seen a fair few spaniels pile in due to rain and I wouldn't be a happy bunny if I had a Deer Dog that did that.

I will try to approach the process with the blinkers off and consider more breeds but it is difficult because in a way I feel like my heart is set on the Weimaraner.... I'll have a word with myself

 

[DeerOnDeck]

I think almost what I'm asking really though is more in line with a key events timeline. So:

6months out: Take out similar dogs
4months out: Attend familiarisation classes or Course Q
2months out: Purchase item X
1month out: Ensure paperwork Y
On the Day: Check before picking up your puppy Z
1month post: Introduce blah blah
2month: Now you can etc etc

If that makes sense? I can just foresee otherwise pulling the trigger too soon and not being prepared or having done something as best as I could. Particular as some of these things will be unique to hunting and deer dogs and not necessarily the case for say a purely household pet.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

From your opening post, I would suggest that you manage your own expectations and first just focus on raising a puppy - and that alone, to ensure that at 1 year you have a sociable, obedient dog.

 

[GlennUK]

FWIW i was in the same boat as you some years ago, we had a GSP bitch, well bred form working stock, in theory an ideal hunting dog.

we, my wife and i, have had pet dogs for a while but never knew how to train the dog properly. We found a course for traning hunting dogs near Dorchecster. Guy called Walter, cant recall his surname but he was well known for breeding good ESS working dogs, and the kennel name was 'Sunstar' something or other.

Anyway point is it became clear that dogs are generally easy to train, its the handlers who really need the training.

Generally when we train a dog we are exploiting its natural instincts, and therefore it is about getting the dog to understand what instinct you want it to use at the right time for us. If we dont communicate with the dog effectively then we stand no chance.

If there is one bit of advice id give is if you haven't trained a dog for obedience before then get yourself some training first.

JMHO

 

[NullMac]

Well there will be lots of opinions, here's mine no more valuable than any other.

1. Get a breed that is easy to train
2. Train the family first - they will **** the dog up faster than you can train it. It's just basics really - sit, heel, recall, but they need to be rock solid.

I have had Labradors. They double up as a bird dog if necessary, good pet and nice and calm which is more in tune with the pace of stalking. Being waterproof and thermally insulated are beneficial as well. They kind of train themselves. I didn't train mine to be the UK's best tracking dog, they were good enough. More useful as a mobile deer radar although it was a help to have immediate location of the carcass.

A spaniel would be a handier size but they just get wet and freeze when sitting still so that's going to reduce the time stalking. Quite fancy a Bavarian Mountain Hound but don't seem to have a lot of insulation and some say they are a bit independent. Dunno pays your money etc etc

Depends on your stalking though what will work for you.

 

[NullMac]

Any book recommendations?

It's not that complicated unless you are planning on training a full bore tracking dog. Would suggest time would be better spent shooting ! Any gundog training book will work. Just substitute deer hair on the dummy or legs when you get to that stage. If he retrieves the deer so much the better.

 

[GlennUK]

A spaniel would be a handier size but they just get wet and freeze when sitting still

That must have been a dud, mine never sat still, ever!

 

[Selous]

Not wishing to rain on your parade and I’m not saying not to get one but bear in mind the HPRs can be much more challenging to train than something like a Labrador. They also tend to mature much more slowly and are very intelligent which can be a benefit and a curse sometimes! I would say that a Lab is generally pretty good by 12 months of age but an HPR will probably get to the same point at 2.5-3, of age. What I have learnt is not to expect too much too soon in life! Saying that the HPRs are brilliant dogs and if that’s what you really want and you have the time and patience then go for it!

 

[dunwater]

I wish I was you, and I wish I had a pup going to you.
You’re doing it exactly right, so far.
You’ve decided on a breed, now decide what you want pup to do and work towards that goal at pups pace.
Your local HPR club may be helpful.

 

[DeerOnDeck]

FWIW i was in the same boat as you some years ago, we had a GSP bitch, well bred form working stock, in theory an ideal hunting dog.

we, my wife and i, have had pet dogs for a while but never knew how to train the dog properly. We found a course for traning hunting dogs near Dorchecster. Guy called Walter, cant recall his surname but he was well known for breeding good ESS working dogs, and the kennel name was 'Sunstar' something or other.

Anyway point is it became clear that dogs are generally easy to train, its the handlers who really need the training.

Generally when we train a dog we are exploiting its natural instincts, and therefore it is about getting the dog to understand what instinct you want it to use at the right time for us. If we dont communicate with the dog effectively then we stand no chance.

If there is one bit of advice id give is if you haven't trained a dog for obedience before then get yourself some training first.

JMHO

Genuinely really helpful advice. Noted and appreciated.

 

[Siggy]

Weimaraner's are an interesting choice -most of the breeders are show kennels so finding a working kennel is going to be a challenge. I'd talk to the breed association to see if they can point you to a suitable kennel. I'd also look at kennel/lines used for working trials - the "police dog/patrol" tests - obedience and tracking is basically the same as deer work.
I'd make sure the stud and the dam are both soundly built - there are a lot of snipey weimeraners out here - fall out from when they were very fashionable back in the 80s/90s.
In terms of the pick of the litter - I'd look for the puppy that is sound, but not hyper, deer dogs spend a lot of time working waiting so you want one that is patient, alert, taking it all in but not doing laps around the kennel walls! - trust me a good deer dog will switch on when its needed.

 

[DeerOnDeck]

Some genuinely really useful advice on here. Well worth posting I have to say. Thank you. All does sound like it could be an exciting and of course a challenging adventure.

 

[25 Sharps]

Start shooting copper ammo?

 

[25 Sharps]

That’s was a joke by the way, I’m a full copper convert…..

 

[GlennUK]

Some genuinely really useful advice on here. Well worth posting I have to say. Thank you. All does sound like it could be an exciting and of course a challenging adventure.

One of the things i learned very early on was to bond with the dog. Not in the rolling around on the floor soppy way that i hear some dog training classes encourage, but to get the dog associating with you in the way you need as its handler. Feeding times, play times are really important in this respect as a puppy and will pay dividends as the dog gets older.

I noticed when i first met Walter (the person trainer) was that his ESS never took any notices of other dogs or people, but was totally focused on him, all the time. When working at the slightest pip of the whistle or verbal command she would instantly react in an appropriate fashion. marvelous to watch.

Incorporating that concept into our dogs training since, has meant when were out ignores people who try to stroke it, much to our amusement and often their disappointment (she is a very pretty dog in my view and attracts a lot of comments in that respect).

She also never runs off to play with other dogs and then wont come back, which is always fun when other dogs who are not under control, decide they want to play with her, she ignores them and we carry on walking often to cries of "stop, please stop my dog wont come back", funny how deaf one can be at times.

Our dog is not perfect, she has her movements but they are relatively few and far between. My wife who handles the dog mostly, knows how she is likley to react to any particular situation and is usually prepared. The dog doesn't work (she is 'gun' shy, AKA anything loud or odd, ripping sticky tape off carboard boxes phases for example) and is a pet so her training is now geared towards being a pet, i,e, coming when called and going in the same general direction as us, but she is generally v.good at that.

"Fenton, FENTON" anyone?

 

[gelert]

Some very good advice being given,and apologies if already mentioned.

If you want an all round dog,ie for stalking and rough shooting,start with training it for stalking.Laying simple tracks as a puppy,leaving it's food at the end of a track on a deer hide etc.
Dragging liver,leaving bits of hair and using minimal blood.
Maybe see if there's a working group on facebook in the area.

Nothing too onerous to begin with,there are many books written which will help.
You can watch and learn the dogs body language and correct if necessary.
Also,try and stick to one animal,ie blood,skin and feet from the same animal, preferably the bigger herding species like fallow or red and avoid roe if possible.

Success is everything during puppy training,make sure the dog succeeds,or set the puppy up so it cant fail so to speak.

Dont be in a rush to take the dog with you stalking before it's ready.
Be prepared for the dog to make you look like a tit at some point, it's inevitable.

Build a good bond with your dog,get it socialized to other dogs and people from an early age too.

Equipment wise the list is endless,a harness or decent collar,biothane is good with your phone humber printed.
A long tracking leash,scent shoes,gps tracker,first aid kit etc.All things you can build up over time.