The noise is greater even with standard steel shot cartridges, this is recognised within the HSE document but dismissed as not being an issue. But we all know noise pollution can and has close clay grounds down.
HSE final lead ammunition consultation launched
- Thread starter Conor O'Gorman
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The noise is greater even with standard steel shot cartridges, this is recognised within the HSE document but dismissed as not being an issue. But we all know noise pollution can and has close clay grounds down.
However wine contains lead.Because I'm putting off tasks at work, I have had a good read and found this in the linked, and snappily titled "Agency opinion on the Annex15 dossier proposing restrictions on Lead in Ammunition":
When meat from roe deer hunted with lead bullets was fed to growing pigs (as a model for humans, especially children), the absolute bioavailability of the lead cooked in water was 2.7%, whereas in meat that had been marinated in wine and vinegar before cooking it was 15%.
So, seeing as most of us add a generous amount of red wine (if I can prise it from Mrs QM's clenched fist) to our Venison stew, maybe its not salt that adds flavour, it's Lead!
White wine samples (35.7 μg/L) had a higher Pb concentration than red wine samples (28.7 μg/L). When stratified by origin of wine, Pb concentrations in United States wines were lower than international wines: 4.4 μg/L and 34.3 μg/L, respectively.18
Thank you. I hope that I will be able to use this to argue on socio-economic grounds that this may cause clay grounds to close and so cause job loss and also business losses. Thank you. I hope others too might reply similarly to this further survey?
If they do then they might have a louder voice if more people became members (and stopped grinding axes on online forums)
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Having read the draft HSE proposals it rather it makes me dispair of Government departments.
1) The principle risk to human health from lead bullets is either ingesting very small particles in meat from animals that have been shot with high velicity rifles, and to a lesser extent with shotgun pellets - although with the latter pellets are much lower velocity and don't fragment. From an environmental perspective, risk to wildlife from eating remains of lead shot animals is also well documented.
2) On rifle ranges, the majority of gallery type ranges where the bullets are captured in sand traps etc, there is very littlerisk to human health, and environmental contamination is easily contained. Ditto on on many clay ranges - especially those such as skeet or olympic trap, the vast majorit of pellets fall in a pre defined area.
Yet looking at the drafts, the proposals are to :
1) ban the sale and use of all lead shotgun cartridges
2) to ban the sale and use of lead target bullets used on outdoor ranges
But to continue the sale and use of lead hunting bullets used in rifles to shoot deer etc. because there are no viable alternatives - WTF.
Mind you why I am at all surprised. This is being delivered by the same bunch who have delivered BREXIT, our free trade agreements with the rest of the world, our control over immigration, our COVID vaccine policy with 2.5 million still suffering long term effects, HS2 and an economy well at the bottom of the G7 , and so much so that we probably shouldn't be in the G7.
1) The principle risk to human health from lead bullets is either ingesting very small particles in meat from animals that have been shot with high velicity rifles, and to a lesser extent with shotgun pellets - although with the latter pellets are much lower velocity and don't fragment. From an environmental perspective, risk to wildlife from eating remains of lead shot animals is also well documented.
2) On rifle ranges, the majority of gallery type ranges where the bullets are captured in sand traps etc, there is very littlerisk to human health, and environmental contamination is easily contained. Ditto on on many clay ranges - especially those such as skeet or olympic trap, the vast majorit of pellets fall in a pre defined area.
Yet looking at the drafts, the proposals are to :
1) ban the sale and use of all lead shotgun cartridges
2) to ban the sale and use of lead target bullets used on outdoor ranges
But to continue the sale and use of lead hunting bullets used in rifles to shoot deer etc. because there are no viable alternatives - WTF.
Mind you why I am at all surprised. This is being delivered by the same bunch who have delivered BREXIT, our free trade agreements with the rest of the world, our control over immigration, our COVID vaccine policy with 2.5 million still suffering long term effects, HS2 and an economy well at the bottom of the G7 , and so much so that we probably shouldn't be in the G7.
But is it factual correct, the assumption is lead shot kills many hundreds of thousands of wildfowl yet none are found, bird flu kills may hundreds of thousands of birds and a walk along the foreshore and you can pick them up.
Strange is it not ?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of evidence of predators eating lead contaminated carcasses having toxic levels of lead in their own carcasses. There have been multiple studies around the world.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Organisations that make high handed decisions without consulting their membership are of questionable value
Don't need any, lead is fine and all 'problems' are either not actually a problem, or completely imagined.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Precisely
As per all these consultations it’s not a guilty or not guilty decision, we just get offered a choice of means of execution.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
BASC have been advocating hard for a voluntary move away from lead, whilst highlighting what they believe to be the dangers of using lead ammunition.
Can’t see them being able to mount a convincing opposition to the proposed ban, can you?
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
BASC chairs the FACE ammunition group consisting of reps from FACE members across Europe (both within and outside the EU and that includes UK which is still 'in Europe'). So there is absolutely no logic to what you are suggesting. What basic assumptions do you mean?
Here is the FACE position:
Here is the FACE guidance on managing risks from lead ammunition use:
Guidance on managing risks from lead ammunition | European Federation for Hunting and Conservation
www.leadammunitionguidance.com
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
The degree of toxicity of the lead compounds ordinarily found in ammunition and associated risks to health within the context of any actual known levels of consumption. Eg records of clinical examination from hospital admissions and post mortems that demonstrate unequivocally that consumption has caused serious harm, as opposed to the "considered opinion" hypotheses of quango members of UK and EU REACH etc.BASC chairs the FACE ammunition group consisting of reps from FACE members across Europe (both within and outside the EU and that includes UK which is still 'in Europe'). So there is absolutely no logic to what you are suggesting. What basic assumptions do you mean?
Here is the FACE position:
Here is the FACE guidance on managing risks from lead ammunition use:
Guidance on managing risks from lead ammunition | European Federation for Hunting and Conservation
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
Thanks, is this what you are referring to?
Public consultation on ammunition re-opened following maladministration
Following an intervention from the European...
www.face.eu
NoIDeer
Well-Known Member
The consultation is about "ammunition (projectiles)". I guess the shooter doesn't matter?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
But the HSE Draft doesn’t think there is any danger using lead on indoor ranges, nor ingesting lead in lead shot game.
The HSE think the real risks are shooting lead core FMJ target bullets into sandtraps on most target ranges.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Probably, I thought that it was this year not last but I may be mistakenThanks, is this what you are referring to?
Public consultation on ammunition re-opened following maladministration
Following an intervention from the European...
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Not just the primers, local gun shops aren't exactly over stocked with non lead alternatives at the moment, especially in any bore size but 12. As for steel don't even go there , it only gets a look in on price alone, when it comes to ballistics it appears to be a poor substitute for just about anything
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