If you are new to HD you may be unaware that the Police cannot give permission for offences under the legislation applicable to be committed by an HD...particularly discharge of a firearm at the roadside/armed trespass ..it is entirely feasible that a complainant who was affected by the process could lay a complaint against the FAC holder. If it is thought that a landowner MAY have consented to trespass for HD it is a defence,however consider that it is you and your FAC/SGC at risk as the Police cannot vary Primary Legislation in this matter it is a Parliamentary process...so with the Humane Dispatch of deer being legal it is not the only factor to be considered..that is one reason I carry £10Million Liability cover/including Legal Fees.It is the shooters call the Police are there for Public Safety/Road Management/ Support for the HAD.....I have been an HAD for 20 years and have learnt from each incident at the end of the day it is the humane and efficient manner of the process that counts
Humane Dispatch...Police
- Thread starter SOE
- Start date
JL Grendel
Well-Known Member
With regards to insurance, that may depend on force area and schemes. My force area cover HADs that are on their call out list and tasked by them under there insurance. But always good to have your own in place to.
North Wales Shooter
Active Member
I enquired about HAD with north wales police and was told they don’t do a scheme.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
When I used to do HD I had a 2 page sheet for roadside / adjoining land which was completed with ground permissions, police officers name and number and insist a police officer is present to control any incidents with any third parties and a controlled distance away to avoid complaints of noise , shock and horror when used to do HD on callout, you lay yourself wide open for complaints and the trolls who think filming a HD is the in thing, if you cant get the control don't carry on regardless, you can really open a can of worms and drop yourself in the cakey pops, it's under your terms and no one else's
It's for the sake of the animal, having a method statement will steer you at a slower constructive pace to enable you to correctly carry out HD as best allowed within the law and no complaints
It's for the sake of the animal, having a method statement will steer you at a slower constructive pace to enable you to correctly carry out HD as best allowed within the law and no complaints
Anyone thinking of volunteering to be on a scheme or register should consider going on the BDS Training day, i did and it has paid dividends in gaining knowledge of what's needed and expected of you, gives you an insite into the law in real terms and the pitfalls
With regards to Insurance BASC cover it on there membership insurance, Not sure if its a legal requirement but on my certificate all my firearms can be used for HAD
With regards to Insurance BASC cover it on there membership insurance, Not sure if its a legal requirement but on my certificate all my firearms can be used for HAD
Some forces do run a HAD course, Hampshire do. I know a few who are on the list of volunteers. I tried getting on there a couple of times but gave up in the end as they have a complete list of people.
which at least saves me getting out of bed at stupid o clock. It is not an easy job so respect to those who do it.
which at least saves me getting out of bed at stupid o clock. It is not an easy job so respect to those who do it.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
There is a lot more to HD than probably known at the start, training is paramount it’s certainly different from when you’re in the middle of a field with a terminally injured sheep or alpaca, being in the public domain is a completely different set up, you will need proper insurance and training, all the permissions from the landowner / highways and in control the more experience you can get the better you will feel about doing a correct and good job for the animal involved, the 5 p’s kick in on HD
anyone thinking of doing this i would suggest linking up with someone who’s already in it and go out with them and get the knowledge on how to get it done right, last thing you want is a phone call from the old bill saying they have had a complaint about you discharging a firearm in a public place - thats a licence loser
you may need a tracking dog as well, permission permission permission again, if you are going to do it make sure you've got it right
It's a mine field. I take my hat off to those that are willing to do it.
Although the police cannot give permission for you to break any law, as SOE says, in effect it is, in the first instance, them that decide whether anything will go to court. So, in that respect, it has the same effect. Although it's also true that other bodies or indeed individuals could initiate a prosecution, which might or might not come to fruition. I doubt though, so long as one acted reasonably and without danger to others, any court would look to convict someone for curtailing suffering. But who would want to go through the process of going to court where the outcome is always uncertain? Even a conviction because of the facts where the court decides not to impose any real sentence is, after all a conviction!
I can't see myself ever volunteering to do this. But by the same token, if I was presented by an animal in obvious distress and there was no other recourse, then it would be hard to ignore that.
All police forces, of course have firearms officers and I know that if there's a rampaging bull on a highway, for example, they have been known to destroy them. Although, too, there have been reports of inappropriate firearms being used and poor shot placements happening. It's really just another instance of the differing policies of police forces throughout the land, some having reasonable arrangements in place and others not.
Although the police cannot give permission for you to break any law, as SOE says, in effect it is, in the first instance, them that decide whether anything will go to court. So, in that respect, it has the same effect. Although it's also true that other bodies or indeed individuals could initiate a prosecution, which might or might not come to fruition. I doubt though, so long as one acted reasonably and without danger to others, any court would look to convict someone for curtailing suffering. But who would want to go through the process of going to court where the outcome is always uncertain? Even a conviction because of the facts where the court decides not to impose any real sentence is, after all a conviction!
I can't see myself ever volunteering to do this. But by the same token, if I was presented by an animal in obvious distress and there was no other recourse, then it would be hard to ignore that.
All police forces, of course have firearms officers and I know that if there's a rampaging bull on a highway, for example, they have been known to destroy them. Although, too, there have been reports of inappropriate firearms being used and poor shot placements happening. It's really just another instance of the differing policies of police forces throughout the land, some having reasonable arrangements in place and others not.
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
Have a read of this,
https://www.hampshire.police.uk/Sys...l-times/2022/rural-times---september-2022.pdf
It will give you a it of info on how things work in Hampshire.
https://www.hampshire.police.uk/Sys...l-times/2022/rural-times---september-2022.pdf
It will give you a it of info on how things work in Hampshire.
done it for couple years up here in NE Scotland ...control room is dundee... done a good few deer and also a cow in small hamlet and all good to date but
an acquaintance who also shoots & is also CID pointed out ..he does not do it... he doesnt think his certs are worth the "risk" and reminded me should anything happen to go wrong ...... they WILL hold you accountable even tho your doing them the favour...
got me thinking ...am i willing to risk my certs?
i never hear or see of any Humane Dispatch courses up here, so im looking at a round trip with the associated fuel and a lodgings somewhere
usually a goof 30 mins drive each way the last few and its always early hours of morning .....
last couple times I've been sat in living room with a dram reading my book or watching something on netflix with wife and politely excused myself and explained sorry i cant come I've had a drink
im currently in a state of "reviewing" my decision wether or not i continue ..... guess if there was course "local" that would
a. educate me further and encourage to continue
or
b. open my eyes to legal issues and pitfalls and maybe just put me off & into not worth the hassle category
paul
an acquaintance who also shoots & is also CID pointed out ..he does not do it... he doesnt think his certs are worth the "risk" and reminded me should anything happen to go wrong ...... they WILL hold you accountable even tho your doing them the favour...
got me thinking ...am i willing to risk my certs?
i never hear or see of any Humane Dispatch courses up here, so im looking at a round trip with the associated fuel and a lodgings somewhere
usually a goof 30 mins drive each way the last few and its always early hours of morning .....
last couple times I've been sat in living room with a dram reading my book or watching something on netflix with wife and politely excused myself and explained sorry i cant come I've had a drink
im currently in a state of "reviewing" my decision wether or not i continue ..... guess if there was course "local" that would
a. educate me further and encourage to continue
or
b. open my eyes to legal issues and pitfalls and maybe just put me off & into not worth the hassle category
paul
Precision123
Well-Known Member
I did the deer tracking course and approached Hampshire police to offer as a volunteer. The answer I got was pretty much "sorry mate, it's a closed shop".
Thames Valley recently emailed all HAD volunteers to say that their scheme is under new management and undergoing a refresh, and asking volunteers to confirm their desire to continue. I read the email in the wee hours of the morning as I was preparing to go out stalking. I responded at 04:13 and, within an hour, had an email back from the organiser thanking me for doing so, which was a very pleasant surprise and hopefully a sign of more good things to come.
This Monday I had the first HAD call that I've been unable to respond to, as unfortunately I had work commitments that I couldn't get out of, but previously I've found both the Control Room, and the police officers on-site, incredibly helpful.
The majority of the calls I receive relate to roads under the control of the Local Authority. Move onto private land then permission from the landowner should be sought. All of this is/was covered in the BDS course that all TVP volunteers took part in before being admitted to the HAD scheme.
For those unfamiliar with HAD it is worth having a read of the Best Practice Guide (this for England & Wales, as Scotland has separate guidance):
As written there:
"If the injured animal runs from the road and onto private land all reasonable efforts should be made to consult the landowner as to their preferred course of action. Without permission there may be a claim of trespass, regardless of motive, this could be particularly serious if a firearm was involved. Acting on a request from the police may provide reasonable excuse"
I find being part of the HAD scheme a challenging, but rewarding, activity and have no intention of stopping being a part of it.
This Monday I had the first HAD call that I've been unable to respond to, as unfortunately I had work commitments that I couldn't get out of, but previously I've found both the Control Room, and the police officers on-site, incredibly helpful.
The majority of the calls I receive relate to roads under the control of the Local Authority. Move onto private land then permission from the landowner should be sought. All of this is/was covered in the BDS course that all TVP volunteers took part in before being admitted to the HAD scheme.
For those unfamiliar with HAD it is worth having a read of the Best Practice Guide (this for England & Wales, as Scotland has separate guidance):
As written there:
"If the injured animal runs from the road and onto private land all reasonable efforts should be made to consult the landowner as to their preferred course of action. Without permission there may be a claim of trespass, regardless of motive, this could be particularly serious if a firearm was involved. Acting on a request from the police may provide reasonable excuse"
I find being part of the HAD scheme a challenging, but rewarding, activity and have no intention of stopping being a part of it.
You
you could go back to the office and ask for them to send you on a course like Hampshire or to sort one out so all the HAD people could be brought up to date with procedures. Which is a sensible suggestion.
Also on the police list in NE and had a few call outs. Always different, sometimes refused due being in the embrace of a dram. Happy to do it when I can but also took my landline off the contact list as mrs was getting woken up when I was away with work (that was a brief discussion). Got to apply judgement to every situation, not always simple.
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
Willie,
TV and Hampshire constabularies work very closely on most things and the HAD scheme is no exception, the refresher training is planned now and the pilot course will be in November and more courses planned for the new year.
If you read the link I put up in the above post you will see the Inspector in charge says other constabularies are looking at the Hampshire model for the own areas.
Experienced deer stalkers and gamekeepers are the best people to do this kind of work as they deal with dispatch on a regular basis, the police are the best people to deal with the public and traffic management and that makes the HAD's life easy.
You're right about the job being rewarding and it can be very challenging and thats where this new training will help.
That would be ideal I’m not so circumstsnces drc but I do t think it’s anywhere like as organized up here … by all accounts the control room have a list of all local firearms mobile numbers and work they list till someone says aye !
I’ve heard of guys local getting sho it or my brother getting shout and none of them “ offered “ to join a Humane dispatch list etc ….
Can’t even get in touch with them as comes up no caller ID …
Guessing input thin is to contact local FEO or email licensing dept and ask ….. makes you think when their own staff ( CID) won’t do it … his own word s
“Remember they have armed response units / staff they could be using… if they f$&k it up it’s media circus…. If you f$&kk it up then they are exonerated ….”
Makes you think. I suppose
In this day and age you have to CYA as much as possible
Cover Your Ar5e !
Paul
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