palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
Why?
If they opened up the seasons would you ………
- Thread starter Leec6.5
- Start date
Sol
Well-Known Member
Not all ground and circumstances are same though, that's the thing.Really,because if deer are well managed, surely there’s no need to shoot them all year round?
Our Red hinds move core areas in autumn after the rut and they become pretty much impossible too shoot, Its only after winter and the season ends do they return to accessible shootable areas and by that point since there's no crop too protect the stags are the only legal quarry.
It would be nice too be able too shoot yearling hinds at least a bit further out than feb 15th.
I dont think there's any welfare debates on shooting pregnant deer or at night time It might not be traditionally sporting but I wouldn't say Its ethicality concern.
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Shoot a late season hind and the fetus can be quite a considerable size, especially if they had an early season the year prior.
Makes no odds, it's quite fascinating with the biology. Never had one visibly moving but I've always made sure I ensure its dead via a knife. Better to be safe than sorry...
No different to shooting a pregnant munty
Makes no odds, it's quite fascinating with the biology. Never had one visibly moving but I've always made sure I ensure its dead via a knife. Better to be safe than sorry...
No different to shooting a pregnant munty
It's enlightening to remember there were no seasons before the introduction of the Deer Act (1963). After that deer numbers slowly began to built, with the increase in number really starting to gather pace by the early 70's. Number then quadruped in the next 50 years
The problem with removing a close season isn’t heavily pregnant females. It’s the risk of leaving orphaned calves to starve to death.
I have no concerns about shooting a near term female deer, and there is scientific opinion on this area: https://efsa.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.2903/j.efsa.2017.4782
Essentially the foetus is unlikely to suffer, for while they have the anatomy needed to experience suffering (ie brain structure) there are protective mechanisms in place that are likely to minimise any conscious perception. Which makes sense as if a foetus were to suffer distress due to low oxygen to the placenta (say dam being chased) the foetus would produce steroid which might make trigger its own miscarriage.
My experience of slash caesars is that the calf/lamb does very little until exposed to the air.
Leec6.5
Well-Known Member
No one seems to worry about the muntjac left orphaned do they?
I’ll wager there are 100’s if not 1000’s orphaned every year.
Some of my ground, in winter, you wont see a hind till about an hour after dark, so nov, dec, jan, your just about wasting your time. Its not till feb, when the days start to lengthen, that you start to see them during daylight again. I use the extension up till 31st march but this still isn't really enough time. An extra month would make all the difference.
Id rather shoot them in april when heavily pregnant than from the 1st September, which is now possible in Scotland.
Id rather shoot them in april when heavily pregnant than from the 1st September, which is now possible in Scotland.
If muntjac had a set breeding season then they too would have a female season to protect dependant fawns. It’s got nothing to do with people not caring, it’s about the muntjacs breeding season not allowing protection of fawns by close season.
Let’s get this straight Lee, you are completely against shooting a deer at night within season, and yet you are all for shooting a female with dependent young? I’m sorry but that’s a bizarre moral stance you have taken.
The people doing the shooting might not mind.
The general public and the people making the legislation certainly will.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
I totally agree.
All of my permissions are shot to a cull number in the main Nov-march season and there is no reason to shoot between April and October unless I fancy having a go at a roe buck or a munty.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
How many are you ahooting in the winter cull season?
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Seasons are really a very blunt instrument. So to are blanket population densities.
What is needed is proper land and resource management at a local and landscape level, driven by experienced and competent individuals based on solid long term scientific data.
What is correct for a mature forest and arable landscape with fallow, roe and muntjac in sussex is very very different, to that of farmland in East Anglia, large areas of heath and old forest in the New Forest, to Ancient woodlands on scottish westcoast, dense commercial conifers on the flow country or red on Eastern side of Cairngorms in Royal deeside.
These are all totally different environments, with a multitude of different challenges and opportunities all needing a different solution.
What is needed is proper land and resource management at a local and landscape level, driven by experienced and competent individuals based on solid long term scientific data.
What is correct for a mature forest and arable landscape with fallow, roe and muntjac in sussex is very very different, to that of farmland in East Anglia, large areas of heath and old forest in the New Forest, to Ancient woodlands on scottish westcoast, dense commercial conifers on the flow country or red on Eastern side of Cairngorms in Royal deeside.
These are all totally different environments, with a multitude of different challenges and opportunities all needing a different solution.
Sol
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't want the female season too be gone It serves a genuine purpose Its required in my eyes, for the protection of stalking as a whole.
I just dislike how short the Scottish seasons are for the females, It makes little sense In my eyes why south of the border you can shoot the same deer for a month and a half more, although same could be argued with our male 'season' I think all the countries should adopt the different laws e.g male season, female season, balistics (.222 should be legal for roe down there) and so forth.
There's a fair few European countries that allow the harvest and taking of female and male red deer under a year and a half old, that would help especially In summer time when young hinds are quite often in groups where there painstakingly obvious
I just dislike how short the Scottish seasons are for the females, It makes little sense In my eyes why south of the border you can shoot the same deer for a month and a half more, although same could be argued with our male 'season' I think all the countries should adopt the different laws e.g male season, female season, balistics (.222 should be legal for roe down there) and so forth.
There's a fair few European countries that allow the harvest and taking of female and male red deer under a year and a half old, that would help especially In summer time when young hinds are quite often in groups where there painstakingly obvious
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
I suspect the thread is more to do with feeling manly and calling out wimps to be contentious, but it’s throwing some interesting observations.
TringSaint
Well-Known Member
Glad to be a wimp!! A 6 foot, 19 stone wimp at that!!
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Indeed.
I’m not sure how sticking to your moral judgement is “ sorting out the men from the boys”
I shoot very pregnant does, I don’t like it and I’d never criticise anyone for not doing it either.
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