Import duties from Germany

[8x57]

We were in Llandudno last night, the two others on our breakfast table are spending many weeks house hunting in North Wales as they had had worked 7 years in Turkey followed by 7 more in NZ now they wanted to retire to Portugal but the visa hassle there after Brexit has blown it out of the water for them.

I genuinely feel sorry for them as their dreams are shattered and they are now reduced to settling in a third world country.

 

[Liveonce]

no labour are going to sort it all out so we have a much better deal with the EU, he said so in the TV debates, mind you Sunak did respond the cost was an open boarder.

 

[JTO]

"Europe's nations should be guided towards a super state without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation." Jean Monnet . I think he was relying on people knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing

 

[MAH]

this is democracy at work.

Your right.
It is democracy at work.
A referendum was promised in a manifesto.
That party were elected.
The referendum was held.
The people voted leave.
The politicians delivered on the result.
We left.

Fyi, I voted remain.
But there is no doubt in my mine that it is democracy at work.

Whether the outcome is better or worse is irrelevant.
The democratic vote was delivered.

M

 

[VSS]

I genuinely feel sorry for them as their dreams are shattered and they are now reduced to settling in a third world country.

I feel sorry for them and @Bavarianbrit, simply for being in Llandudno, albeit only for breakfast.

 

[tim@tcs]

I feel sorry for them and @Bavarianbrit, simply for being in Llandudno, albeit only for breakfast.

There are much worse places on the north Wales coast than that place!

 

[VSS]

There are much worse places on the north Wales coast than that place!

True. There's always Rhyl, I suppose. But Llandudno is pretty seedy these days.

 

[tim@tcs]

True. There's always Rhyl, I suppose. But Llandudno is pretty seedy these days.

The first place outside of Ulster or Corby that my staff were shot at!
A good chippy though!

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Your right.
It is democracy at work.
A referendum was promised in a manifesto.
That party were elected.
The referendum was held.
The people voted leave.
The politicians delivered on the result.
We left.

Fyi, I voted remain.
But there is no doubt in my mine that it is democracy at work.

Whether the outcome is better or worse is irrelevant.
The democratic vote was delivered.

M

I agree, stupid to me as it was. I must defend democracy as the alternatives are too horrible to contemplate.

 

[tim@tcs]

I agree, stupid to me as it was. I must defend democracy as the alternatives are too horrible to contemplate.

Germany is struggling with freedom of speech and tolerance of political views that differ from the establishment in regards to closing down the press!
Poor old Huns, struggle to do the right thing regardless!

 

[NullMac]

There was nothing wrong with the common market. Where it went wrong was successive governments succeeding power and laws to a European government.
What they should have said was yes we will trade with you but we won't let you govern us or dictate to us.

And if John Major and later Blair/Brown had given us a referendum like the rest of Europe (Eire had 2 until they got the answer right) that is what the result would have been. Instead they dragged us into a political union nobody wanted and to get out of it we ended outside the market as well.

There were two instances of tied votes in the Commons. The first time was about Political union 30 years ago and this time it was Brexit. I think there was a Reece-Mogg involved in both.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Tolerance of political views? Do you mean the 20 odd % that are now voting for the right wing AfD and the only 4% voting for the green party?
Freedom of speech is part of the "Grundgesetz" (Basic Law). From 1948 written to stop another dictator ever getting into power in the future.
The Basic Law places at its head a guarantee of inviolable fundamental rights. Initially it was intended to limit these to classic formulations of civil freedoms, as with equality before the law, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of occupation and freedom of religious conscience.

 

[tim@tcs]

Tolerance of political views? Do you mean the 20 odd % that are now voting for the right wing AfD and the only 4% voting for the green party?
Freedom of speech is part of the "Grundgesetz" (Basic Law). From 1948 written to stop another dictator ever getting into power in the future.
The Basic Law places at its head a guarantee of inviolable fundamental rights. Initially it was intended to limit these to classic formulations of civil freedoms, as with equality before the law, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of occupation and freedom of religious conscience.

Yes


Edited to add; the grown ups don’t seem to appreciate other people’s free speech

 

[Dunwaters]

Your right.
It is democracy at work.
A referendum was promised in a manifesto.
That party were elected.
The referendum was held.
The people voted leave.
The politicians delivered on the result.
We left.

Fyi, I voted remain.
But there is no doubt in my mine that it is democracy at work.

Whether the outcome is better or worse is irrelevant.
The democratic vote was delivered.

M

So what’s wrong with democratically asking people if they’ve changed their minds ?

 

[GlennUK]

So what’s wrong with democratically asking people if they’ve changed their minds ?

you mean until they give you the answer you want?

Edit: One of the biggest problems with the membership question is that the voting population is pretty evenly divided, the same was true of Welsh devolution (devolution being agreed be less than 1% majority IIRC), and having looked in the past at the referendum results of other countries in the EU, it is similar.

When the numbers of votes cast compared with the head of population it gets even worse, IIRC most, if not all countries have become members off the back of a close vote, and end up entering by virtue of a minority of the eligible voting population having the final decision.

When the Union was based around trade alone, i dont think many people would argue against that, however, the problems with the political union is coming home to roost IMHO.