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funny you should say that saw some venison sausages in the supermarket said "may contain bullet metal " no mention of lead copper or any such so called non toxic metals , clearly not such a big issue
The general public don't want splinters of bone and lumps of metal in their food, and that includes so called eco friendly steel shot
I did the sensible thing and dug out all the old supply pipes to my 1760s house back to the newly refreshed alkathene main and replaced them with modern pipes, have gradually replaced all the copper drinking water feed pipes with copper that I have 'plumbed' (aka the word that means 'lead'!) myself to make sure it is done with non lead solder. I've removed the 1930s Valspar lead based paint as well. No, I'm not paranoid (just informed) but 'best practice' is there for a reason.8
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While precise numbers vary, estimates suggest millions of lead pipes still serve homes in the UK, with one source indicating around 34% of homes have some lead pipework, and another stating that roughly 25% of the water supply network consists of lead communication pipes
“Waters down” your argument a bit.
Never had; abdominal pain, constipation, headaches, irritability, memory problems, infertility, numbness or tingling in feet or hands or (otherwise unexplained) intellectual loss? Well done. Long may you continue to enjoy excellent health.
Good for you ( I’m not being sarcastic) that’s quite an outlay for any home owner but those who rent don’t have much choice.
Had you thought of seeing your GP about your hypochondria?
The member asked if there was UK research on pheasants etc and I have shared it. Pheasants ingest lead shot and suffer lead poisoning, as do many other species and that is a key reason that the UK and EU are planning to ban lead shot. You can argue about the figures all you like but that's not going to change the direction of travel.
Not read but from the summary:First paper talks about acute toxicity but isn't the lead issue meant to be about a chronic toxicity?
Copper can cause some pretty nasty toxicities. One of the reasons I can't get my head around it being put forward as better than lead. Each has their strengths and weaknesses but both can be pretty toxic.
From childhood to my 80's I have drunk water from lead pipes, still do. I chewed my cot which was painted with lead paint. We salted pork and hams in a lead salting trough and stuffed salt Peter down around the ham bones to stop flies. I definitely must have eaten lead from game, rabbits and venison. My 61 and 58 year old sons have done the same drinking and eating together with cot biting, amazingly we are all still here.
I'm sure that there is but what the research proves is that lead ingestion issues are very much in the minority. Even setting aside mortality from our own shooting activities there remains the very significant matters of predation and the natural impacts of an unforgiving winter climate. What is lacking as others have highlighted is the lack of proportionality and a general disappointment with BASC siding with the antis instead of fighting our corner. I'm sorry Conor but we will continue to disagree on this.
For toxicity its both, albeit more focus on acute toxicity in most bird studies. As regards the numbers of lead pellets I can't remember, but I recall studies just on lead shot ingestion showing one to two pellets was enough to cause acute toxicity in some species.
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
BASC has fought our corner for 40 years and there has been no lead shot ban. Now bans are in the pipeline here and in the EU. BASC is still fighting as discussed for more transition time. Not sure how you can be dissapointed with BASC for this worldwide direction in travel away from lead shot. You should be grateful for BASC's efforts but I know we will have to agree to disagree on that particular point!
I cannot agree that siding with the antis is in any way fighting our corner, BASC's defence of shooting appears to have much in common with Percival's of Singapore!
That's outdated language and perspective, and I appreciate you cannot see it (This is England) but the next generation of shooters will see things very differently. As they already do in Denmark and USA. Read the article below - it is from 50 years ago:
why were the minutes on lead confidential Connor ?That's outdated language and perspective, and I appreciate you cannot see it (This is England) but the next generation of shooters will see things very differently. As they already do in Denmark and USA. Read the article below - it is from 50 years ago:
A Biologist‐Hunter Defends Use of Steel Shot (Published 1978)
Nelson Bryant article on wildlife biologist Dr Robert Smith's stand favoring steel over lead shot for waterfowl hunters; Smith has noted that thousands of waterfowl die annually from ingesting spent lead shot pellets (M)www.nytimes.com
Fortunately I'm one of the older generation that remembers the successful divide and rule tactics of the antis and where appeasement got us over the semi-auto rifle and handgun bans and the hunting act of 2004.That's outdated language and perspective, and I appreciate you cannot see it (This is England) but the next generation of shooters will see things very differently. As they already do in Denmark and USA. Read the article below - it is from 50 years ago:
A Biologist‐Hunter Defends Use of Steel Shot (Published 1978)
Nelson Bryant article on wildlife biologist Dr Robert Smith's stand favoring steel over lead shot for waterfowl hunters; Smith has noted that thousands of waterfowl die annually from ingesting spent lead shot pellets (M)
Thanks for that but there are still some issues.For toxicity its both, albeit more focus on acute toxicity in most bird studies. As regards the numbers of lead pellets I can't remember, but I recall studies just on lead shot ingestion showing one to two pellets was enough to cause acute toxicity in some species.
I wrote this earlier but worth repeating here perhaps, that here is no evidence worldwide that birds are poisoned from ingesting steel shot. You would normally see anectodal evidence first followed by scientific studies. Remember, non-lead shot has been used in the UK since wetland/wildfowl related bans on lead shot started from 1999 onwards. The same across most of the countries signed up to the AEWA treaty. Then we have the case of Denmark with a full lead shot ban for many years and various lead bans across USA and Canada. Nowhere has anyone found evidence of poisoning of birds. For lead shot its a very different matter, as we all know.
Here is a 2019 study in Denmark where steel and bismuth now more commonly found in gizzards than lead shot - no issues reported with such ingestion.
Danish pheasant and mallard hunters comply with the lead shot ban - PMC
Denmark implemented a total ban on the use of lead shot for hunting and clay target shooting in 1996. Compliance was not studied systematically until recently. However, sporadic police checks and individual studies indicated that compliance was far ...
I recall research on mourning doves in USA where they have been finding steel shot in gizzards and no ill effects. Someone else might find the study. A lot of shooting goes on - 100 million shots fired annually for that species. As an aside here is a large scale study of hunters on lead shot vs steel shot finding no difference in doves bagged per shot, wounded per shot, bagged per hit, or wounded per hit.
