Is an FAC worth it ?

[Heym SR20]

Having your own rifle means that you go stalking with “your” rifle and that so different to using an “estate” rifle.

There is a lot of rubbish on the internet/ YouTube etc. If you are a straight forward law abiding individual who enjoys going deer stalking then no reason why you shouldn’t possess an FAC. A grant / renewal costs about £200 depending on cost of a GPs letter. A secure cabinet is a one off cost of the same amount.

Revocations - principle reasons will be

1) serious concerns about your household - domestic violence etc. will need to be serious enough that concerns are raised with powers that they take action.

2) Driving like an idiot that results in you being prosecuted for much more than a speeding ticket. If it’s dangerous or drunk driving etc the almost certainly

3) associating with seriously dodgy characters

4) getting arrested for assault/ affray etc etc

5) Drink, drugs etc. and other lifestyle choices that result in any of the above

Your guns will be likely removed, or you will invited to surrender them whilst the matter is investigated and / or prosecuted. Whether or not you will get them back will be a decision based on balance of probabilities.

Fundamentally any of the above are really within your own control and within your own choosing.

Finally there are medical reasons. Most of the conditions that would result in revocation develop over time and give you time to sort your affairs out. I have a very close friend that went through this. The Met Police were very supportive and sympathetic. They took his rifle to a place of safe keeping. He was treated in hospital for several months for severe depression. He learned how to manage his condition and was offered his rifle back. He chose not to and it now resides in my cabinet on my FAC.

 

[Bowland blades]

ONE REALY GREAT REASON people dont get an FAC - Is because they never apply !
Get on with the job

 

[Worthy130]

As long as you have good reason then go for it!

 

[badmolassesaccident]

If firearms are your interest, then satisfying the requirements to get and maintain a FAC is very, very easy. Don't think too much.

 

[badmolassesaccident]

Aye maybe I do sound a bit paranoid. Some of it was what happens in a revoke with rifles ect the other was in all honesty I appreciate after the Plymouth incident they re reviewed everyone but for me I have got a history of mental health nothing tht makes me feel im a danger to anybody n I know five welll I’m not I think anyone who knows me would vouch for tht I’ve just had a **** time of it just as your say getting paranoid n paranoid over nothing really. Anyways I am applying n thts tht

You need to disclose any mental health issues. You also need to submit a GP's report (this applies to everyone, not just those who have self-declared mental health issues). Having had depression, mental health or similar problems does not alone mean you will be rejected.

 

[Deerhunter22]

Having your own rifle means that you go stalking with “your” rifle and that so different to using an “estate” rifle.

There is a lot of rubbish on the internet/ YouTube etc. If you are a straight forward law abiding individual who enjoys going deer stalking then no reason why you shouldn’t possess an FAC. A grant / renewal costs about £200 depending on cost of a GPs letter. A secure cabinet is a one off cost of the same amount.

Revocations - principle reasons will be

1) serious concerns about your household - domestic violence etc. will need to be serious enough that concerns are raised with powers that they take action.

2) Driving like an idiot that results in you being prosecuted for much more than a speeding ticket. If it’s dangerous or drunk driving etc the almost certainly

3) associating with seriously dodgy characters

4) getting arrested for assault/ affray etc etc

5) Drink, drugs etc. and other lifestyle choices that result in any of the above

Your guns will be likely removed, or you will invited to surrender them whilst the matter is investigated and / or prosecuted. Whether or not you will get them back will be a decision based on balance of probabilities.

Fundamentally any of the above are really within your own control and within your own choosing.

Finally there are medical reasons. Most of the conditions that would result in revocation develop over time and give you time to sort your affairs out. I have a very close friend that went through this. The Met Police were very supportive and sympathetic. They took his rifle to a place of safe keeping. He was treated in hospital for several months for severe depression. He learned how to manage his condition and was offered his rifle back. He chose not to and it now resides in my cabinet on my FAC.

No in all honesty I think my fear is mental health. Like many I have suffered badly with mental ill health. It is the only thing that I can see being a problem for me, think the fear is being rejected then on a reapplying will that become a problem having a previous rejection. My mental health is now stable I can function properly. I have bad days but don't we all. I have just a few times now ended up in a pit hopelessness where you feel suicidal because its what comes to you as your only option when really it won't solve anything. But its just what happens wen you feel so ****ed to put it politely. But as I say with regards to mental health im stable, I think my doc would agree as would the councillor and I know for an absolute fact I am a danger to nobody never even been in a fight nor done drugs or any of that bollocks or hung around with the undesirables who deal drugs n that crap. Soo think id be good to be honest just depends how the police see my mental health and there assessment. Tried to contact the doc but can't get through might just pop up its a 5 min walk.

 

[Deerhunter22]

I know the above doesn't really answer the question. I was just trying to show that in my experience, the licencing department that I delt with (Scotland west) where, at all time reasonable, as I suspect they would be regarding any potential revocations. Also that as long as you can explain your mental state and do not pose a significant risk, all should go smoothly.

Yup its mental health that arose from trauma so to speak essentially was ptsd symptom wise but tbh after a lot of help from family and councillor things are a lot better and I cope now well. Just about making that known I guess and to be as honest as possible which I would be anyways. Its the only barrier I see for me that and potentially my age being 22 but yeh. Nowt I can do about it, is what it is and regarding danger to people well nothing more I can do to prove im not other than genuinely not being a threat. Which I am not and that would shine through I think, its complicated but to put it tis way if I was a threat or a more tough person shall I say some of my problems I've had wouldn't exist cause id of felt with them there and then such as fought back after being beaten up ect. Just not that kind of guy

 

[Lancaster]

Everybody has Mental Health, the same as everyone has Physical Health, some are very healthy in both ways, others have problems either Mentally, Physically, or both, the difference is most people are happy to talk about their Physical Health, much fewer are happy to talk about their Mental Health.

If you are taking medication to maintain your Mental Health that may be an issue, in the same way that someone who is taking medication to stabilise certain medical conditions, such as Epilepsy, may not be allowed to have a driving license.
Applying for a license to possess Firearms/Shotguns will require a fee to be paid, if that application is refused then your money will, as far as I am aware, be refunded.
If you are granted a license and you subsequently have a period when you are unwell, you have a duty to notify your licensing authority, and it would be prudent at that point to lodge any firearms with a RFD until you have recovered.

My initial thoughts based on your posts suggest that you may have a significant anxiety issue and are over thinking things, or in jargon, Catastrophizing, which simply means that a person fixates on the worst possible outcome and treats it as likely, even when it is not.
It is a very common type of cognitive distortion, if you are on Meds and, more importantly, receiving support, you will develop tools to help you work your way around this, this doesn't mean it goes away, it just means that you develop the coping strategies to deal with it.

 

[Deerhunter22]

Everybody has Mental Health, the same as everyone has Physical Health, some are very healthy in both ways, others have problems either Mentally, Physically, or both, the difference is most people are happy to talk about their Physical Health, much fewer are happy to talk about their Mental Health.

If you are taking medication to maintain your Mental Health that may be an issue, in the same way that someone who is taking medication to stabilise certain medical conditions, such as Epilepsy, may not be allowed to have a driving license.
Applying for a license to possess Firearms/Shotguns will require a fee to be paid, if that application is refused then your money will, as far as I am aware, be refunded.
If you are granted a license and you subsequently have a period when you are unwell, you have a duty to notify your licensing authority, and it would be prudent at that point to lodge any firearms with a RFD until you have recovered.

My initial thoughts based on your posts suggest that you may have a significant anxiety issue and are over thinking things, or in jargon, Catastrophizing, which simply means that a person fixates on the worst possible outcome and treats it as likely, even when it is not.
It is a very common type of cognitive distortion, if you are on Meds and, more importantly, receiving support, you will develop tools to help you work your way around this, this doesn't mean it goes away, it just means that you develop the coping strategies to deal with it.

I wouldn’t say catastrophising, I think it’s more of a is this gonna be worth the time and money applying for meds and what not. But trying to get in contact with my doc no success yet going to go to them direct I think.
I don’t think my mental health would ever go away n in some ways I don’t want it too. I think it’s made me a stronger person in all honesty. It’s been to much bull**** to go through just for it to disappear but in the same respect I certainly cope find.
Yes on meds but we are talking a very small dose almost placebo effect you could say it isn’t significant the medication isn’t what keeps me stable it’s what I’ve had to go on to get the serotonin levels back up which dissipate when your anxious essentially just you have to continually take. In my worst times essentially in the times I’ve had dark thoughts of wanting to end myself not one have I attempted nor have I tried to harm anybody. Again no that kind of person. Mental health is a continuum a spectrum n it can go from good to **** to good. I can’t see why it should be an issue so long as you pose no threat to society or yourself. Suicidal thought wise if you look at the patterns of what causes it it makes a lot of sense. I.e when you feel alone and worthless aka depression. Anyways could go real deep wi that. Yeh maybe a bit of anxiety or overthinking but is that a bad thing ? Means you examine every outcome I guess which one could argue maybe makes a safer license holder idk

 

[Subsistence]

I wouldn’t say catastrophising, I think it’s more of a is this gonna be worth the time and money applying for meds and what not. But trying to get in contact with my doc no success yet going to go to them direct I think.
I don’t think my mental health would ever go away n in some ways I don’t want it too. I think it’s made me a stronger person in all honesty. It’s been to much bull**** to go through just for it to disappear but in the same respect I certainly cope find.
Yes on meds but we are talking a very small dose almost placebo effect you could say it isn’t significant the medication isn’t what keeps me stable it’s what I’ve had to go on to get the serotonin levels back up which dissipate when your anxious essentially just you have to continually take. In my worst times essentially in the times I’ve had dark thoughts of wanting to end myself not one have I attempted nor have I tried to harm anybody. Again no that kind of person. Mental health is a continuum a spectrum n it can go from good to **** to good. I can’t see why it should be an issue so long as you pose no threat to society or yourself. Suicidal thought wise if you look at the patterns of what causes it it makes a lot of sense. I.e when you feel alone and worthless aka depression. Anyways could go real deep wi that. Yeh maybe a bit of anxiety or overthinking but is that a bad thing ? Means you examine every outcome I guess which one could argue maybe makes a safer license holder idk

I obviously can't comment on if your mental state would stop you getting a certificate, without a doubt there will be a lot of serious and probing questions to answer especially if you are still on the meds. That is up to the licencing department. I think I'm correct in saying that the Dr just gives the info to them and cannot recommend either way its up to licencing to approve or not.

One thing that I think is at least slightly pertinent, is that if you have had certain mental health problems in the past you might be more likely to recognise them and take positive action to tackle them, faster than someone that has never struggled with mental health. I know when I had depression it snuck up on me and I didn't really know what the problem was. I would now be much more likely to notice it starting and take action quicker than I did last time.

Again it's up to you to prove you are fit and safe, at the end of the day you may feel like you will be no threat, however the licencing department are not going to be taking even the smallest chance.

At the end of the day there is only one way yo find out for sure and that is to put in the application. Just do your best, be honest, and respect the outcome even if its not what you want to hear.

 

[Deerhunter22]

Exactly going to just apply just trying to get in contact to my doctor. Only I know myself the best I know fine well I’m no threat but as you the license dept has to know that aswell and be confident in that which I think after scrutinising they’d conclude that. I expect questions but doesn’t bother me I’m open about it all tbh think it’s important to talk in general. Anyways aye not going to know the deal till i apply end off I’ve concluded

I obviously can't comment on if your mental state would stop you getting a certificate, without a doubt there will be a lot of serious and probing questions to answer especially if you are still on the meds. That is up to the licencing department. I think I'm correct in saying that the Dr just gives the info to them and cannot recommend either way it’s up to licencing to approve or not.

One thing that I think is at least slightly pertinent, is that if you have had certain mental health problems in the past you might be more likely to recognise them and take positive action to tackle them, faster than someone that has never struggled with mental health. I know when I had depression it snuck up on me and I didn't really know what the problem was. I would now be much more likely to notice it starting and take action quicker than I did last time.

Again it's up to you to prove you are fit and safe, at the end of the day you may feel like you will be no threat, however the licencing department are not going to be taking even the smallest chance.

At the end of the day there is only one way yo find out for sure and that is to put in the application. Just do your best, be honest, and respect the outcome even if it’s not what you want to hear.

 

[YoelD]

You need to disclose any mental health issues. You also need to submit a GP's report (this applies to everyone, not just those who have self-declared mental health issues). Having had depression, mental health or similar problems does not alone mean you will be rejected.

That's interesting, as in my case (health anxiety) I was refused, then granted the next day after sending further information, then refused again four weeks later and now have my appeal hearing next week.
I wonder if there's a lack of consistency in FLDs?

 

[Deerhunter22]

That's interesting, as in my case (health anxiety) I was refused, then granted the next day after sending further information, then refused again four weeks later and now have my appeal hearing next week.
I wonder if there's a lack of consistency in FLDs?

really ? Wow seems soo wrong they can mess you around. My struggles of mental health is all that causes Me concern applying. I now have a letter from my guide I’ve been out with stating
I’m a very safe character ect he knows about my problems mentally not in depth but has a general veiw. I’ve been offered a place fo a syndicate aswell from him soo in his view I must be of good character ect and that I’ve just had a **** time of it.
The anxiety for me has come from not dealing with the issues same with the mild depression.
Anyways I am applying paperwork is filled out ready to go in. Just awaiting my medical, I’m thinking I might get my DSC1 done before I apply. Just an extra thing to show I’m serious about the sport and it can only aid my knowledge on the hobby if anything aswell safety and mest hygiene whatever.
I have had the anxiety about whether to apply or not as per this post. In fairness I was watching tk much of a certain YouTuber and from what I know now he has had revoked and all the rest of it soo god knows but just got me questioning it. But **** it it’s happening so it’ll be going in once I decide if I’ll do my dsc1 before or after. I may aswell before if i can

 

[YoelD]

really ? Wow seems soo wrong they can mess you around. My struggles of mental health is all that causes Me concern applying. I now have a letter from my guide I’ve been out with stating
I’m a very safe character ect he knows about my problems mentally not in depth but has a general veiw. I’ve been offered a place fo a syndicate aswell from him soo in his view I must be of good character ect and that I’ve just had a **** time of it.
The anxiety for me has come from not dealing with the issues same with the mild depression.
Anyways I am applying paperwork is filled out ready to go in. Just awaiting my medical, I’m thinking I might get my DSC1 done before I apply. Just an extra thing to show I’m serious about the sport and it can only aid my knowledge on the hobby if anything aswell safety and mest hygiene whatever.
I have had the anxiety about whether to apply or not as per this post. In fairness I was watching tk much of a certain YouTuber and from what I know now he has had revoked and all the rest of it soo god knows but just got me questioning it. But **** it it’s happening so it’ll be going in once I decide if I’ll do my dsc1 before or after. I may aswell before if i can

From my experience, I would be concerned. It would be wise to speak to your GP and specialists so they can review your current status (I should point out that while in a medical professional, I'm not clinician, so I can't give any detailed advice).
In my own case the police have hugely overblown The effects of anxiety to deem me a "danger to the public and the peace", using phrasing in the refusal letters such as "significant panic attacks" and "frequent panic attacks".
For reference I had two panic attacks during 2022, and one earlier this year, which are related to a very specific health phobia.
So infrequent are they, that nobody I shoot with, nor even members of my family, such as my middle brother, have ever seen me have one. However, my case is a bit more complex as we have already caught the police lying about certain events, or at the least misrepresenting many things, so I've already taken steps to take things higher regarding certain officers via the PCC.

 

[Deerhunter22]

From my experience, I would be concerned. It would be wise to speak to your GP and specialists so they can review your current status (I should point out that while in a medical professional, I'm not clinician, so I can't give any detailed advice).
In my own case the police have hugely overblown The effects of anxiety to deem me a "danger to the public and the peace", using phrasing in the refusal letters such as "significant panic attacks" and "frequent panic attacks".
For reference I had two panic attacks during 2022, and one earlier this year, which are related to a very specific health phobia.
So infrequent are they, that nobody I shoot with, nor even members of my family, such as my middle brother, have ever seen me have one. However, my case is a bit more complex as we have already caught the police lying about certain events, or at the least misrepresenting many things, so I've already taken steps to take things higher regarding certain officers via the PCC.

I get what you’re saying regarding being concerned. I am concerned to a degree, for me there is nothing more I can do than give them it at face value. Literally, I know my guide knows, family friends I am of no threat to myself or family. I’ve never been admitted to hospital for help nor had to get ambulance ect. I ma Guy who had had some trauma that’s continued for a while because I’ve never dealt with it properly or spoken in depth to a professional. So concerned to a degree but I’d hope my character would shine through. If I was a threat to myself or the peace you’d think you would have had to off attempted suicide or try to attack someone ect y’a know. That’s seem mad they have said that about you that’s your a potential threat to the peace if there is nothing to back that up. A phobia to me isn’t sufficient nor is a panic attack. Anyone can have them at anytime for any reason. Ridiculous

 

[YoelD]

I get what you’re saying regarding being concerned. I am concerned to a degree, for me there is nothing more I can do than give them it at face value. Literally, I know my guide knows, family friends I am of no threat to myself or family. I’ve never been admitted to hospital for help nor had to get ambulance ect. I ma Guy who had had some trauma that’s continued for a while because I’ve never dealt with it properly or spoken in depth to a professional. So concerned to a degree but I’d hope my character would shine through. If I was a threat to myself or the peace you’d think you would have had to off attempted suicide or try to attack someone ect y’a know. That’s seem mad they have said that about you that’s your a potential threat to the peace if there is nothing to back that up. A phobia to me isn’t sufficient nor is a panic attack. Anyone can have them at anytime for any reason. Ridiculous

I know exactly what you mean. They believe that my having "unsupervised access to firearms could result in a risk to the public", despite no evidence supporting this. Of course I'm still allowed unsupervised access to my air rifles, knives, woodworking tools, chainsaws, etc. And I have no history of suicidal ideation, self-harm, harm to others, domestic abuse, alcohol or drug problems, anger, and so forth. It seems that not only is this highly exaggerated, but there might be a form of bias or discrimination occurring.
My FEO gave me what appears to be a glowing report. My club captain, club officers, and personal friends have given excellent references including my experience as range safety officer and key holder.
It's a very bizarre case. If it weren't so insulting, I'd have to laugh though, given how absurd their case is.

 

[YoelD]

I get what you’re saying regarding being concerned. I am concerned to a degree, for me there is nothing more I can do than give them it at face value. Literally, I know my guide knows, family friends I am of no threat to myself or family. I’ve never been admitted to hospital for help nor had to get ambulance ect. I ma Guy who had had some trauma that’s continued for a while because I’ve never dealt with it properly or spoken in depth to a professional. So concerned to a degree but I’d hope my character would shine through. If I was a threat to myself or the peace you’d think you would have had to off attempted suicide or try to attack someone ect y’a know. That’s seem mad they have said that about you that’s your a potential threat to the peace if there is nothing to back that up. A phobia to me isn’t sufficient nor is a panic attack. Anyone can have them at anytime for any reason. Ridiculous

You're also right that anyone could have them. In my case it's a phobia so specific I don't even know the name for it (a fear of imminent death from a medical emergency - MI, stroke, respiratory arrest, seizure, etc).
The way the police have described it makes me sound psychotic, despite their own court bundle contradicting them.

 

[Deerhunter22]

You're also right that anyone could have them. In my case it's a phobia so specific I don't even know the name for it (a fear of imminent death from a medical emergency - MI, stroke, respiratory arrest, seizure, etc).
The way the police have described it makes me sound psychotic, despite their own court bundle contradicting them.

In a funny weird way you’d think fear of death would sound like your more suitable trust wise. Yup that does seem an absolute farce and glad you’re taking them on for that, I have had suicidal thoughts but I’m not sorry for that. When you’re soo anxious all the time at the time i should I add and down in the dumps feel there is no escape you go into this self destruct mode. It does not make me a danger to myself or anyone and what seems frustrating
Is I feel like police may see it as a danger to myself or people but then is that worry cause of the rare story’s you here about somewhat like yourself or is that just a worry they will be like no ? Idk. So I can only apply and see what the outcome is. I totally understand the caution need to be taken on deciding fac’s also adding up risk factors but when you know yourself that your
No danger and when you know that everyone around you who knows you well and close thinks your a very nice kind
Loving person with a big heart, fyi these are the words of friends family and a councillor you kind of get ****ed off that your
Mental health could stand in the way of a hobby.

 

[YoelD]

In a funny weird way you’d think fear of death would sound like your more suitable trust wise. Yup that does seem an absolute farce and glad you’re taking them on for that, I have had suicidal thoughts but I’m not sorry for that. When you’re soo anxious all the time at the time i should I add and down in the dumps feel there is no escape you go into this self destruct mode. It does not make me a danger to myself or anyone and what seems frustrating
Is I feel like police may see it as a danger to myself or people but then is that worry cause of the rare story’s you here about somewhat like yourself or is that just a worry they will be like no ? Idk. So I can only apply and see what the outcome is. I totally understand the caution need to be taken on deciding fac’s also adding up risk factors but when you know yourself that your
No danger and when you know that everyone around you who knows you well and close thinks your a very nice kind
Loving person with a big heart, fyi these are the words of friends family and a councillor you kind of get ****ed off that your
Mental health could stand in the way of a hobby.

You'd think so. I'm a very risk averse person, to be honest. And I'm not a very confrontational person, either. However, the police are aware of this hence their decision to grant that they then reneged on.
I feel the police are now using a model of over-compensation for the failings of DCP, regarding the Plymouth murders (indeed, the IOPC investigation is actually mentioned in TVP's court bundle in my case, as of all psychological disorders pose equal risk or have similar effects).
In your case, it's understandable they would consider suicide risk as part of their decision making - again, you should seek the advice of your GP and/or specialist to evaluate any risk in this instance.
I believe the concern with generalised anxiety disorders is that someone may be paying insufficient concentration to their actions and surroundings.
However, all of these are related to the individual, and frequency, severity, and perceived risk can vary wildly.
My own FEO stated that I appeared well, physically and mentally, and showed no signs of intemperance. Make of that what you will, but if decisions are made outside of that it seems odd to even bothered with an FEO visit during decision making rather than once a risk assessment has been made

 

[YoelD]

In a funny weird way you’d think fear of death would sound like your more suitable trust wise. Yup that does seem an absolute farce and glad you’re taking them on for that, I have had suicidal thoughts but I’m not sorry for that. When you’re soo anxious all the time at the time i should I add and down in the dumps feel there is no escape you go into this self destruct mode. It does not make me a danger to myself or anyone and what seems frustrating
Is I feel like police may see it as a danger to myself or people but then is that worry cause of the rare story’s you here about somewhat like yourself or is that just a worry they will be like no ? Idk. So I can only apply and see what the outcome is. I totally understand the caution need to be taken on deciding fac’s also adding up risk factors but when you know yourself that your
No danger and when you know that everyone around you who knows you well and close thinks your a very nice kind
Loving person with a big heart, fyi these are the words of friends family and a councillor you kind of get ****ed off that your
Mental health could stand in the way of a hobby.

Oh, and thanks to my wife I do have a name for the specific phobias I suffer from: thanatophobia and cardiophobia.