Malxwal
Well-Known Member
Shooting deer. Unless you're genuinely in a numbers situation, it's not just about shooting deer. Fill your boots, tell yourself what you want, but I don't think you're getting the joy out of it.
Is the sun setting on expensive glass?
- Thread starter Roonster
- Start date
I really have no idea what you are trying to say in this post sorry. If it’s a justification to use a NV scope after normal daylight hours then please word it better.
I also wouldn’t call it joy. But I think you know that and are being a Tw***
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
You've got me wrong. For me, the only justification for using them is when you're under pressure to control numbers. Some people will justify using them in recreational stalking purely because they feel they need to shoot a deer every time.
No need for insults.
Muntjac have made it to nearly every part of the country as many guides don't shoot them in the summer saving the "heads" for people to shoot in the colder months. During that times more are being made/born, same with the Fallow!
Nearly every deer I shoot these days in with digital drone 10 on the .243
Reasons, small dark deer are hard to see at last light so the % falls off a cliff with a glass scope hence I use a digital scope.
Fallow often come out very late so again you need to be able to see!
My Z6 is 30 mins behind my digital scope which in deer time is a long drive home with out anything or just take
Stevie Wonder stalking.
Later when they can't see you and it is a safe shot you get a couple!
Get a grip.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
New Pard 007 4K is out soon. An excellent solution for those who like proper glass.
I haven't looked through any of the newer pards- but I think provided expensive glass has AO/Side Focus- and thus allows 007 clip ons (although the fancier coatings on alpha glass do reduce quality)- I think traditional scopes can still be combined with clip ons for best day and reasonable night options.
I haven't looked through any of the newer pards- but I think provided expensive glass has AO/Side Focus- and thus allows 007 clip ons (although the fancier coatings on alpha glass do reduce quality)- I think traditional scopes can still be combined with clip ons for best day and reasonable night options.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I don't think anyone is suggesting shooting deer after legal hours. When even the best optical glass scope stops working a digital scope such as the Zulus will give another 15 minutes of legal shooting.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Some people don't fall into the contractor with a cull target or the classic stalker who enjoys a wander in the woods.
Some people such as myself have an empty freezer and fallow that only come out at the very last legal shooting hours. Using my Zulus in that situation means a freezer full of meat even though I have zero pressure to shoot more deer and limited time to stalk like I used to.
I can only guess you are great fun at the pub quiz, answering questions for both A & B teams
Malxwal
Well-Known Member
So, do we actually check the clock to make sure we're legal when choosing to fill the freezer ?
Please take all this with a tiny pinch of salt
The scope has a clock on the displaySo, do we actually check the clock to make sure we're legal when choosing to fill the freezer ?
Please take all this with a tiny pinch of salt
Following Tim's lead, I got a Drone 10x just last week, to deal with rabbits on one rifle, replace a thermal sight I had on it, as the thermal results in more body shots than head shots, as it is harder to judge distance and hence bullet drop using thermals. The rabbits I shoot become human food, and a shoulder shot rabbit is essentially half a rabbit gone.So, do we actually check the clock to make sure we're legal when choosing to fill the freezer ?
Please take all this with a tiny pinch of salt
However, I also intend using the Drone X for deer on farmland beside housing. That land has many, many dog walkers and public around throughout the day, starting from 6am onwards. The deer need to be culled, and doing it without risking public alarm, means doing it around sunset or the hour after, where the fewest people are out. Those that are out are not going to see you pulling two deer along at dusk.
I have been using March optics to do to this, and even with their astoundingly good light gathering, have declined to pull the trigger many a time at last light as I was not sure if a Roe was a buck or a doe at distance, or whether it was poor specimen to remove or a good one I wanted to leave - often bucks on crowded land are much smaller and slimmer than on land where the numbers are lower. I am hoping that the Drone 10x can reduce that problem and get herds under control faster. This is not recreational stalking, but neither is it contractor wipe-out style deer management.
On your question of a time, I do use a timer on my phone when stalking in the evening. Not only to remind me of the hour, but so I get back to my family at the time I say I would be back.
So short of it, IR and thermal sights have their place, but it is joyless compared to looking through quality optics.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I do but I'm sure others don't as the chance of getting caught is tiny, but then much like speeding by 5mph over isn't exactly the crime of the century, 5 mins after legal shooting light could be morally justified by most of us it doesn't mean we would do it.So, do we actually check the clock to make sure we're legal when choosing to fill the freezer ?
Please take all this with a tiny pinch of salt
My thermal spotter clock is 5mins fast...So, do we actually check the clock to make sure we're legal when choosing to fill the freezer ?
Please take all this with a tiny pinch of salt
Second one picked over the hedge dead as a nit.
to the original question, another factor is possibly less loyalty to name brands/competition.
I cant comment on digital, dont know mutch about them. But budget optics are very competitive nowadays. I know quite a few Younger hunters who got a vector or a meosport or an older optika 5 thinking they would save up for that svarovski and then decided that they had all the scope they needed already.
Light transmission isnt everything but its an easy stat to compare at a glance.
S&B klassik 90%
S&B fixed 90%
S&B zenith 90%
S&B polar t96 96%
source: S&B customer service
Zeiss diatal (old) 87%
zeiss diavari V 91%
Zeiss victory HT 95%
Vector optics continental X8 93% with schot glass at a 600euro price tag with a lifetime warranty.
Ofcourse there are other factors, sheer LT% doesnt translate to what your individual eye actually sees but its still a good indication of glass quality, the rest is just what your eye prefers.
I cant comment on digital, dont know mutch about them. But budget optics are very competitive nowadays. I know quite a few Younger hunters who got a vector or a meosport or an older optika 5 thinking they would save up for that svarovski and then decided that they had all the scope they needed already.
Light transmission isnt everything but its an easy stat to compare at a glance.
S&B klassik 90%
S&B fixed 90%
S&B zenith 90%
S&B polar t96 96%
source: S&B customer service
Zeiss diatal (old) 87%
zeiss diavari V 91%
Zeiss victory HT 95%
Vector optics continental X8 93% with schot glass at a 600euro price tag with a lifetime warranty.
Ofcourse there are other factors, sheer LT% doesnt translate to what your individual eye actually sees but its still a good indication of glass quality, the rest is just what your eye prefers.
The figures don't reflect the real difference, at all.
The S&B Klassic is a Hungarian budget scope, with fixed parallax point, not great optics but good enough most of the time. Compare it with top optics, and the difference is day and night, if you pardon the pun.
I am using March high mag zoom scopes, and am amazed how they often show a clear image when my eyes just see black. On more typical days, murky overcast, they show a vivid picture than leaps out at you when looking through a Hawke Supreme the same day, shows just mist. People buy top end S&B Ultrabright / Leupold / Swarz / March with 34 and 35mm tubes for a reason.
However, all high mag scopes needs more light on their high mag settings than on their low mag settings that one uses to take a shot. An IR sight does not suffer that problem.
For foxing or for rabbits, an IR sight is a no brainer, as no optical scope is going to get you on target in the middle of the night, unless you are into moonlit snowy fields.
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I agree, but it does affect the sale of those high end scopes.
coming from a 350 euro vixen the meopta meosport was a revelation. If i hadnt looked trough someone elses scope i would have never thought i needed to spend any more. Vector continental are even better than the meosport (same price class).
The high end euro scopes are still better. but compared to a time when german nations almost monopolised the higher range the mid range and budget range have come a long way now and 600 buys you a scope that puts some 1000 euro scopes to shame.
A serious low light Hunter in my fathers day bought a high end fixed power or he could forget about shooting those boar at night.
a modern young hunter can spend 600 euro and get a scope that makes my father blink his eyes.
the budget/mid class is simply capable now. Those higher end scopes offer luxury but in this day and age you can get away with chinese glass at 1/4 the cost and still have a very functional bit of kit that will serve 90% of most hunters needs.
Just a little example why glass won't go anywhere soon ...I had to dispatch a roe doe with a head shot yesterday that was done for after being wrapped in a fence.the way she was lay I wouldn't of been able too identify the head and neck with my thermal with a normal scope I could.Theres a place for both I'd say thermal is more of a foxing tool with some cross over for deer.
No. Ive had mid range scopes and mounts before - after a few years of use, they all have some form of frustrating loss of zero or confidence.
That was before I bought a S&B and a Swarovski and both have been flawless.
The Swarovski took 7 shots to zero and the next went through a deer.
Ive checked zero since, but never had to adjust it in 7 years.
It just works perfectly.
To be clear, i definitely will be buying a high end scope. probably a victory HT. But i asked around just out of interest and 8/10 i asked said they wouldnt pay over 1200 for a scope because their r1, older svaro, older S&B, vector continental etc did everything they wanted for a Price their wife wont kill them over.
So in that sense, more so than digital (wich is very restricted in Finland) the midrange scoped are outcompeting the higher end. Essentially with todays price/functionality/quality balance a 2k scope is for those who can justify paying the premium for what is essentially a hobby.
My father had the option of using irons, some old zielvier/zielzechs, or saving up from his labourers salary to one day buy a modern german scope. He shot the irons until he saw them no longer to supplement our meals with (often poached) small game and finally bought the zeiss.
That is a story from a ravaged post war nation (not finland tho)
today he would have grabbed a vortex crossfire and called it good.
No the sun will never set on expensive high end glass unless a few things happen
1 laws in many countries chance drastically
2 aditionally digital optics evolve to offer full true to life resolution
3 tradition dies (big thing still on this side of the sea)
4 they reach the technical ceiling of how good glass can get and the budget range catches up with it (may eventually happen in many many years)
The sun may one day set on them as it set on the abbacus and the steam tractor. But not yet, not even close
however sales will hurt from the advancements in lower budget optics, and the low/mid range tends to evolve faster.
So in that sense, more so than digital (wich is very restricted in Finland) the midrange scoped are outcompeting the higher end. Essentially with todays price/functionality/quality balance a 2k scope is for those who can justify paying the premium for what is essentially a hobby.
My father had the option of using irons, some old zielvier/zielzechs, or saving up from his labourers salary to one day buy a modern german scope. He shot the irons until he saw them no longer to supplement our meals with (often poached) small game and finally bought the zeiss.
That is a story from a ravaged post war nation (not finland tho)
today he would have grabbed a vortex crossfire and called it good.
No the sun will never set on expensive high end glass unless a few things happen
1 laws in many countries chance drastically
2 aditionally digital optics evolve to offer full true to life resolution
3 tradition dies (big thing still on this side of the sea)
4 they reach the technical ceiling of how good glass can get and the budget range catches up with it (may eventually happen in many many years)
The sun may one day set on them as it set on the abbacus and the steam tractor. But not yet, not even close
however sales will hurt from the advancements in lower budget optics, and the low/mid range tends to evolve faster.
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