Ivermectin, for the interested

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Clearly there is a worldwide conspiracy against curing people.
Many a true word said in jest.

ok fair play. sorry I just find it offensive that you call doctors "sheep" for following clinical guidelines that often have taken centuries of accumulation of medical knowledge to develop.
and your medical qualifications are? ......
A few hundred years ago , doctors followed such clinical guidelines as , 'bleeding' using dirty blades, leeches , and the use of toxic chemicals to treat 'humours'
This they considered peer reviewed 'science' they considered themselves at the pinnacle of their profession, and they were wrong.
Have you ever thought that this ivermectin wonder drug may be fake news on a global scale to boost sales profits? That would be a more believable theory.........
You know invermectin costs virtually nothing , the licence ran out years ago , and there is no revenue stream to be had from it ?
Thats a much more believable theory.
 
ok fair play. sorry I just find it offensive that you call doctors "sheep" for following clinical guidelines that often have taken centuries of accumulation of medical knowledge to develop.
and your medical qualifications are? ......

I can accept that clinicians dont often like to work outside clinical guidance because their indemnity and professional body may not be so supportive if they do but generally this is for the right reason to protect patients from potentially wreckless "gung ho" medical practice.

Have you ever thought that this ivermectin wonder drug may be fake news on a global scale to boost sales profits? That would be a more believable theory.........
Most doctors I’ve spoken about ivermectin with were not even aware of it, much less it’s means of blocking SARS COV2 from entering human cells and thus reproducing. Nor were they aware of the anti coagulatory properties of ivermectin.

If one merely sets aside any misgivings and/or preconceptions, and consider the evidence as to modes of function, that alone should give one pause for consideration. It’s hard to do harm with an FDA approved medicine, let alone one with such a lengthy and impressive safety record.
 
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Most doctors I’ve spoken about ivermectin with were not even aware of it, much less it’s means of blocking SARS COV2 from entering human cells and thus reproducing. Nor were they aware of the anti coagulatory properties of ivermectin.
They might well be, unless they are dermatologists. This should make one pause to wonder why - and the answer might well be that they are practising medical practitioners and not (unlike so many of the contributors to this thread) medical research scientists. One would therefore hope that they are keeping their feet firmly on the therapeutic ground, rather than running off with curious alternative treatments which currently seem, notwithstanding whatever is being said, to underperform in proper trials.
It’s hard to do harm with an FDA approved medicine, let alone one with such a lengthy and impressive safety record.
When thinking about medicines, the 'absence of harm' is a relative concept based on the balance of risk against benefit. It isn't hard to do harm with any medicine, be it ever so 'safe' if you promote its use for conditions in which the evidence of efficacy is inadequate - even if the harm results not from the drug, but rather the conduct of the folk treated with it on spurious grounds.
 
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That is the most absurd statement yet in this debate.
That's a terrifically-high bar - and I don't think the suggestion of ivermectin-boosting-for-profit is anywhere near it, how ever ridiculous and unlikely it may seem to upholders of the thread orthodoxy.

People do make money on low-value goods, and increased volume will certainly not do any harm.
:)
 
People do make money on low-value goods, and increased volume will certainly not do any harm.
Ebay will be full of vendors selling it then wont it ?
Google it , try and buy some.

Surely some savvy people will be making a mint selling this stuff ?
 
It would appear that Drs Marik and Kory do not profit from their efforts to promote ivermectin as a therapeutic/preventative medicine, and Professor Carvallo had to fund his own research and trials.
I know it’s a bit old fashioned these days, but they are possibly more motivated by helping their fellow Man.
 
I'm sure they mean well, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Well, if it was just those two saying Ivermectin worked, be sceptical.

But we all know that there have been 60 trials globally. All with same or similar outcomes. Critically, reduced mortality in all cases.

Would a larger, double-blind trial add more certainty? Sure.

But just consider this: (1) Ivermectin is safe [16 deaths in 3.7billion doses - safer than aspirin] (2) Ivermectin trials to date have saved lives (3) There are now 20k deaths associated with covid vaccines globally

Against that backdrop, why would any government not sanction mass trials? Or allow free use of this cheap drug that carries near zero risk?
 
Well, if it was just those two saying Ivermectin worked, be sceptical.

But we all know that there have been 60 trials globally. All with same or similar outcomes. Critically, reduced mortality in all cases.

Would a larger, double-blind trial add more certainty? Sure.

But just consider this: (1) Ivermectin is safe [16 deaths in 3.7billion doses - safer than aspirin] (2) Ivermectin trials to date have saved lives (3) There are now 20k deaths associated with covid vaccines globally

Against that backdrop, why would any government not sanction mass trials? Or allow free use of this cheap drug that carries near zero risk?
I've read all this twaddle dutifully, but am bored rigid with it now. ;)
I'm not convinced at all. Let's try some common sense instead, just for a change.


 


Just plain misinformation. Ivermectin has been prescribed for humans since 1987.

Ivermectin_WHO_approved.webp



One of 28 Ivermectin RCTs was retracted due to obvious plagiarism in wording. That does not invalidate the other 27.

1631031175719.webp

 
One of 28 Ivermectin RCTs was retracted due to obvious plagiarism in wording. That does not invalidate the other 27.
Absolutely it doesn't.

However, I think what invalidates the rest as far as their being used as conclusive evidence that ivermectin is of sufficient utility in treating or preventing covid to make to make it a sensible drug to recommend is that they are not good enough.

As far as I can tell that sums up the current position, insofar as it is the view of a reputable body of professional opinion would support, insofar as that applies here. I tend to think in that kind of way, as it is how people in the field I work in avoid being successfully sued for stuff.

Nothing on this thread, once I've read into it, has given me cause to think twice about that position - lovely though it would be to have a cheap and harmless medicine to manage Covid.
 
I think some people just revel in being contrarian or distrusting the state. Do as you wish - i'm unwatching this thread.

If you prefer ivermectin over the vaccine - best of luck to you. At best - it'll work, at worst, darwinism will be at work.
 
I think some people just revel in being contrarian or distrusting the state. Do as you wish - i'm unwatching this thread.

If you prefer ivermectin over the vaccine - best of luck to you. At best - it'll work, at worst, darwinism will be at work.
Thanks and good for your input. BTW, I hear Boris has a second hand car for sale, in case you’re interested. Not that I distrust him, of course, it’s just that I already have one.
 
Yeah, like peer reviewed, double blind studies. You know, like what science considers 'good science'. They don't seem to exist. Clearly there is a worldwide conspiracy against curing people.
Well, if it was just those two saying Ivermectin worked, be sceptical.

But we all know that there have been 60 trials globally. All with same or similar outcomes. Critically, reduced mortality in all cases.

Would a larger, double-blind trial add more certainty? Sure.

But just consider this: (1) Ivermectin is safe [16 deaths in 3.7billion doses - safer than aspirin] (2) Ivermectin trials to date have saved lives (3) There are now 20k deaths associated with covid vaccines globally

Against that backdrop, why would any government not sanction mass trials? Or allow free use of this cheap drug that carries near zero risk?

There are plenty of peer reviewed, double blinded studies on Ivermectin. Loads of them, in several countries and at various scales. A summary can be found here on all of them.


However, despite Zambezi's suggestion (and that of the FLCCC) it is not correct to say that all of them, or even most of them demonstrate reduced mortality.

In fact, the truth is that despite all these ongoing trials, so far no true RCT trial with decent design and no obvious bias has managed to find statistically significant evidence that it works. At all.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work of course, it just means that there's no proof to say that it does.

As an example, here's what Merck has to say: "One statement in February 2021 by Merck, a manufacturer of ivermectin, describes the conclusions of their review of the evidence as providing "no meaningful evidence for clinical activity or efficacy in patients with COVID‐19" (Merck 2021)."

I find it somewhat surprising that the much touted and shared anecdotal evidence shared above for places like Africa that seems to show massive effectiveness cannot yield any benefit at all under controlled conditions though. Maybe, just maybe, there's other factors at play in these roll outs?

There's also some discussion on the FLCC and BIRD (they're the same group of people) data that Freeforester has been citing extensively. It might be worth a skim before taking it as gospel.

The major study on this is the PRINCIPLE study in progress with Oxford. It'll be a while before all the results are in.

This is only 'for the interested', of course.

On the subject of money. I could note that the people selling this story on social media are doing very well out of their 'alternative treatment' narrative irrespective of the efficacy of the drug.

The video Freeforester shared above is from a channel with 410k subscribers. A quick look over their channel suggests that Mr. Malhotra usually discusses AI and Sanskrit language topics. He's done two videos on the medical field total, both in the last week. I also note that he usually gains 30k views a video. Yet his covid conspiracy one netted 618,000 in one day. That's some good traffic to his channel, some good advertising and some good ad revenue right there. At roughly $5 / 1000 views the video has probably made him $3000 since he uploaded yesterday, irrespective of any other incentives in terms of selling his books, subscribers, publicity etc etc. But I'm sure it's not a factor for him making it or an incentive to be the dissenting voice. Not at all...

It's just the same for many academics involved in the FLCCC and BIRD. THey want to be right, because that'd lead to accolades. Toeing the party line, good science or no, does not get you invites to speak at conferences, or gain you funding, or sell books. And no Freeforester, Professor Carvallo isn't funding his own trials because he truly wants to help mankind, he's funding his own trials because no one else trusts him enough to give him their cash.
 
I've read all this twaddle dutifully, but am bored rigid with it now. ;)
I'm not convinced at all. Let's try some common sense instead, just for a change.


The issue in the USA appears to have been people self-medicating with livestock rather than human invermectin. The FDA itself approved invermectin some years back for human usage, as it is similarly approved for use by NICE in the UK. I accept those approvals are for specific medical purposes. It does however make the "invermectin is only for animals" argument a significant misrepresentation.

Obviously, chugging back a load of invermectin intended for your cows might not be the brightest idea (albeit the greater issue with that may possibly be the dosage and its consequences rather than the pharmaceutical quality of the product - assuming the formulation is identical).

I accept that there is a separate question of whether invermectin is efficacious against and in the treatment of Covid. If it is something that appears to have potential against Covid it would be counter productive to dismiss it. All potential treatment options would seem to merit investigation and testing, particularly given the risks and evidence of break through infections.

What the OP has done is flag data from different sources that may point to invermectin having some degree of efficacy against and in the treatment of Covid. It is not all data from whackos and nutjobs and some of those advancing the case merit serious consideration. Dismissing it with the "invermectin is only for animals" argument is fundamentally flawed. In saying this, I am not stating that I believe invermectin to be a cure all but rather that I am willing to keep an open mind on the issue.

I do find it surprising how this has become such a contentious and politicised issue. This is particularly given that we have far more contentious things to debate on the SD, such as whether one should keep or disown a friend who announces that he has just bought or is considering getting a new rifle chambered in 6.5CM ;)
 
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