Lead ammunition - BASC statement in response to RSPB and WWT open letter

[Conor O'Gorman]

RSPB and WWT open letter:

https://www.wwt.org.uk/uploads/documents/2022-04-04/rspb-wwt-open-letter-re-ending-the-sale-and-use-of-lead-shotgun-ammunition-04042022.pdf

BASC statement:

BASC statement in response to RSPB and WWT open letter

The RSPB and WWT's open letter calls for the signatories to pre-empt the outcome of the government's UK REACH process on lead ammunition.

basc.org.uk

 

[Dunwaters]

Thanks Conor, we’re now what, 2 years into the voluntary ban transition?
I’m more interested in how that process is progressing and what specifically the difficulties are and how the project is progressing rather than a press release fending off what appears to be under, the circumstances, a not totally unreasonable request.
Is the initial timeline still achievable? What is the planned implementation plan? Which shooting sector is going to be affected first and what effects are foreseen?
We’re nearly half way through the transition period, someone somewhere must have a spreadsheet detailing rollout and production schedules with timelines and progress reports.
You created this process yourself, voluntarily, with a self imposed time scale, so where are we currently?

 

[Heym SR20]

My reckoning

1) Rifles - plenty of good non lead options now for all stalking rifles with bullets that are accurate, provide quick and humane kills and leave nice clean carcasses.

And there seem to big strides taken in bringing venison to the consumer market place.

2) Shotguns - falls into two parts

a) shot - steel shot is cheap, and works. If you got a steel shot proof, then high velocity works really well and gives you kills out to 50 yards. Normal velocities work well enough for most guns and most shooting.

Bismuth is an option for valuable old guns. But is expensive. But if you pick your shots does it add a lot to the cost of a days shooting?

b) Wads. Steel shot really needs some form of cup or sleeve to give good performance. Plastic wads provide this. But plastic wads are full of their own challenges.

There are a good number of innovative approaches to producing a fully biodegradable shot cup type wads, from all sorts of different approaches. Some are using plastic type materials that break down on exposure to water - still concerns over nano plastic content though. Others are more of a moulded fibre.

Overall there are now several brands on the market that just seem to work, judging by reviews etc.

Big challenge still though is volume, and making them widely available without a ridiculous price.

Younger generations of shooters are using over and unders and anything less than 10 years old is probably steel shot proofed, or can be made so by simple change of chokes.

Older shooters using old prewar guns that are tightly choked may have a challenge, but with normal game choking there are already and certainly will be good affordable options on the market. Whether Bodget and Bang will stock them is another matter entirely.

I think it will be a question of planning ahead and ordering them in.

16, 28 and 410s - market is much smaller and these will be the last to be available. There are a couple of options for 16 and 28, but not yet for the 410.

 

[paul o']

Got a slab of bismuth here H&H perfect for the 12th Aug

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thanks Conor, we’re now what, 2 years into the voluntary ban transition?
I’m more interested in how that process is progressing and what specifically the difficulties are and how the project is progressing rather than a press release fending off what appears to be under, the circumstances, a not totally unreasonable request.
Is the initial timeline still achievable? What is the planned implementation plan? Which shooting sector is going to be affected first and what effects are foreseen?
We’re nearly half way through the transition period, someone somewhere must have a spreadsheet detailing rollout and production schedules with timelines and progress reports.
You created this process yourself, voluntarily, with a self imposed time scale, so where are we currently?

Thanks for that. I guess the starting point in addressing your query is that what was announced in February 2020 by nine organisations was a voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting over a five year period. That was and is not a 'voluntary ban' [on lead ammunition]

Some progress has been made in that voluntary transition but time is running out and by the end of this month a public consultation will launch on restriction proposals.

BASC web briefings on that process since last year will hopefully address your queries. See below.

Two-year lead ammunition review – the call for evidence - BASC

BASC's Conor O'Gorman examines the Health and Safety Executive's call for evidence in more depth and analyses what it means for shooting.

basc.org.uk

Two-year lead ammunition review - how far will it go? - BASC

Conor O'Gorman discusses a consultation due in April on proposals to restrict the use of lead ammunition in England, Wales and Scotland.

basc.org.uk

There are also some insights in BASC podcast Episode 20:

Podcast

Each episode includes the latest news and views relating to shooting with expert analysis of shooting-related affairs and interviews.

basc.org.uk

If anything has been missed from all of the above happy to help address that for you either in this thread, by DM, email or a phone call.

 

[Dunwaters]

Thanks for that. I guess the starting point in addressing your query is that what was announced in February 2020 by nine organisations was a voluntary transition away from lead shot and single use plastics for live quarry shooting over a five year period. That was and is not a 'voluntary ban' [on lead ammunition]

Some progress has been made in that voluntary transition but time is running out and by the end of this month a public consultation will launch on restriction proposals.

BASC web briefings on that process since last year will hopefully address your queries. See below.

Two-year lead ammunition review – the call for evidence - BASC

BASC's Conor O'Gorman examines the Health and Safety Executive's call for evidence in more depth and analyses what it means for shooting.

basc.org.uk

Two-year lead ammunition review - how far will it go? - BASC

Conor O'Gorman discusses a consultation due in April on proposals to restrict the use of lead ammunition in England, Wales and Scotland.

basc.org.uk

There are also some insights in BASC podcast Episode 20:

Podcast

Each episode includes the latest news and views relating to shooting with expert analysis of shooting-related affairs and interviews.

basc.org.uk

If anything has been missed from all of the above happy to help address that for you either in this thread, by DM, email or a phone call.

Thank you Conor,
Having read through the information supplied there appears to be a few significant gaps between planning and implementation.
The game dealers are going lead free in July of this year with both feather and fur, yet according to your figures 65% of shoots won’t be lead free until the end of 2023, with 20% more to be lead free by 2025, so only 15% of game shoots will be lead free this year and only that 15% will be able to sell game for human consumption?
Where is the 85% of game containing lead shot going to go from July of this year?
Then theres the ammunition manufacturers statement that it will take them up to 10 years to develop viable green alternatives.
I have to assume that this timeline is for the development of a totally green alternative, but what’s the timeline for the various phases of the planned transition?
When do we lose lead shot, when do we lose the plastics, what alternatives are being proposed, in what proportion and at what price relative to current costs?
There doesn’t seem to be a coherent transition plan at any level to manage what is going to be the most significant change in shooting technology we’re ever likely to see.
“suck it and see” is going to see us lose ground on every front.
Thanks again for your response. I’m happy enough to transition away from lead myself provided there are viable alternatives, but I have to say that the lack of a cohesive strategy at this stage of the process when we are facing both a voluntary ban and the threat of a legislative one leaves me most uneasy.

Regards.
Sean.

 

[Dunwaters]

Last point, there are 2 parallel processes going on with the same point of convergence, a lead shot ban.
Both the voluntary ban and the UK REACH process, are going to result in much the same thing, and it will be pretty close to whatever the EU comes up with so why not just cut and paste from the EU implementation plan?
It’ll save a lot of time and money if the voluntary process is coordinated with the probable legislative one.

Regards.

 

[Liveonce]

I do not think we should pre judge the result of the U.K. REACH process, their is more to shooting then just live quarry.

also only the voluntary ban is trying to ban single use plastic wads.

 

[Dunwaters]

I do not think we should pre judge the result of the U.K. REACH process, their is more to shooting then just live quarry.

also only the voluntary ban is trying to ban single use plastic wads.

I think you’ll find that the UK REACH will mirror the EU findings, if they don’t then the divergence in standards will most likely see UK game excluded from the EU market and please don’t tell me that you’ll be able to sell it elsewhere, you can’t.
I’d suspect that you’ll follow a similar timeline for the same reason.
Reading through Conor’s materiel, theres 2 separate UK initiatives, 3 if you include the EU REACH, all with the aim of banning or curtailing the use of lead projectiles.
We don’t need both, the REACH process will supersede any voluntary arrangements, so drop the voluntary ban, its hopelessly disorganised and the July deadline is unachievable, lets concentrate our time, money and effort mitigating the effects of a legislative ban and agreeing where we actually need to keep lead.
For you guys that think you can dodge the bullet and stockpile lead, maybe think again, the EU plans to ban “ the sale, use and possession “ of lead ammo after the implementation date.
Anyone want to bet that a UK ban wont follow the same route?

 

[Liveonce]

It’s very easy on paper to ban, a completely different proposition to make it happen in practice in the real world.

And I repeat their is far more to shooting than game shooting. The focus on game shooting is distorted, fast becoming the rich man’s sport and never mind the working man.

So EU reach will mirror EU findings (so much for BREXIT) just so we can sell the game to the EU, the devil in me would say simple don’t shoot the game if it cannot be used within the home market, replace it with simulated game clay shooting, which is growing in popularity.

 

[Heym SR20]

As regards the comments on game dealers only take lead free game from July, that is entirely within their commercial rights, in the same way they would reject a gut shot deer etc.

As regards deer, there are now plenty of good viable options for those who commercially are committed to using non toxic due to lease and / or game dealer requirements.

And as for the commercial game shooting then there are non toxic, and eco wadded alternatives already on the market. It will be down to those involved to ensure there is a good supply available - i.e.get your orders in now, and to ensure guests have plenty of time to make sure they have a suitable gun to either use what will be supplied by the shoot or to arrange alternatives.

If you are shooting for your own pot then you need do nothing, or change accordingly.

And if you are a wildfowler - well you are just shaking your head wondering what all the fuss is about as we have been using non-toxic for a long time, and its not been the end of our sport.

 

[Dunwaters]

It’s very easy on paper to ban, a completely different proposition to make it happen in practice in the real world.

And I repeat their is far more to shooting than game shooting. The focus on game shooting is distorted, fast becoming the rich man’s sport and never mind the working man.

So EU reach will mirror EU findings (so much for BREXIT) just so we can sell the game to the EU, the devil in me would say simple don’t shoot the game if it cannot be used within the home market, replace it with simulated game clay shooting, which is growing in popularity.

Its a different topic, but very relevant to the debate, Britain is an outlier where game shooting is concerned. You’re getting the foreign shooters because the high bag shoots you specialise in either don’t exist or are illegal elsewhere.
One of the justifications for the practice is the production of clean organic food. Remove that from the equation and you’re looking at some very dodgy grounds for carrying on. Its an industry, it generates revenue but its based on people with large amounts of disposable income shooting large numbers of hand reared free range poultry.
Its primarily the large scale game dealers supporting and driving the voluntary ban, if they don’t get it they’re going to be locked out of the food chain. Small scale shooters are being dragged along for the ride and are some of the most vociferous opponents, but they’ll be least affected because there are already alternatives to lead available and if you’re not shooting 100’s of shells a season the increased price per pop isn’t that much of a worry.
Interesting times indeed.
As for making the ban stick in the real world, how much lead would you keep around if the penalty for use or possession was loss of SGC and FAC?

 

[Liveonce]

As regards the comments on game dealers only take lead free game from July, that is entirely within their commercial rights, in the same way they would reject a gut shot deer etc.

As regards deer, there are now plenty of good viable options for those who commercially are committed to using non toxic due to lease and / or game dealer requirements.

And as for the commercial game shooting then there are non toxic, and eco wadded alternatives already on the market. It will be down to those involved to ensure there is a good supply available - i.e.get your orders in now, and to ensure guests have plenty of time to make sure they have a suitable gun to either use what will be supplied by the shoot or to arrange alternatives.

If you are shooting for your own pot then you need do nothing, or change accordingly.

And if you are a wildfowler - well you are just shaking your head wondering what all the fuss is about as we have been using non-toxic for a long time, and its not been the end of our sport.

I think you are underestimating the supply chain to be able to deliver especially on steel shot.
even before this July the game dealers have been giving very little to nothing for game however shot.

then let’s face it wildfowlers shoot very few cartridges in comparison to game shooting, plus probably using 3.5inch chambered semi autos, hardly a fine English 2.1/2inch side by side.

ordering now for next season, interesting concept have you tried even buying lead cartridges at this time?
massive shortage especially of the budget clay cartridges.

Then last year just around 3% of total cartridge sales were non toxic shot.

Going to be a very challenging period for the industry.

 

[Heym SR20]

I think you are underestimating the supply chain to be able to deliver especially on steel shot.
even before this July the game dealers have been giving very little to nothing for game however shot.

then let’s face it wildfowlers shoot very few cartridges in comparison to game shooting, plus probably using 3.5inch chambered semi autos, hardly a fine English 2.1/2inch side by side.

ordering now for next season, interesting concept have you tried even buying lead cartridges at this time?
massive shortage especially of the budget clay cartridges.

Then last year just around 3% of total cartridge sales were non toxic shoot.

Going to be a very challenging period for the industry.

Order now for delivery at start of season. You don’t need them now, you will need them in September/ October.

This gives manufacturers clear indication of demand and thus can crank up the machines accordingly.

Manufacturing on spec is risky, and thus you err on the side of caution.

And with firm orders in place there is funding available to fund the supply chain.

And shoots need to work with their game dealers to confirm exactly what is required and when. If a dealer knows he will be taking in 2,000 odd phaesants on October 15th, he can work with his own customers on what they will be taking and serving in their menus. Many in the catering and retail work a long way in advance.

 

[NullMac]

As for making the ban stick in the real world, how much lead would you keep around if the penalty for use or possession was loss of SGC and FAC?

Making sale illegal is the real lever. Lead ammo would just disappear as it is consumed during a period of change and not replenished in the shops.

One or two zealots holding onto illegal ammo is not going to make much difference in the real world, and as you say their licence would be rescinded much as now should someone be in possession of say armour piercing rounds.

 

[Liveonce]

you can crank up the machines but without the components to feed into them they make nothing.

I think you will find ALL steel shot is manufactured in China, they already have a steel shortage and are cutting back production of steel to help meet carbon output targets. Can you see steel shot being a priority?
it takes a few hours to make one tonne of lead shot, it takes around five days to make the same tonne of steel shot.

The environmental impact of manufacturing steel shot is far greater than that of lead shot so if you take the full life cycle of the shot into account which is best for the planet?

 

[NullMac]

A required change of ammunition for clay shooting or target shooting would be a much bigger issue for me that stalking. The round count on stalking and game shooting is minuscule in comparison

 

[Liveonce]

Lead ammo would just disappear as it is consumed

so would a lot of firearms disappear by that i mean become obsolete.

edit to add it think the biggest driver at this time is cost, the rapidly increasing costs of all shooting will drive many away from the sport and handicap recruitment into the sport, hence declining from probably its current peak.
You can start to see that happing now by looking at the age group of clay shooters at the non commercial clubs.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

The big problem with all this is preparation!

Think forward and order in advance, its not rocket science.

 

[Whitefront]

so would a lot of firearms disappear by that i mean become obsolete.

edit to add it think the biggest driver at this time is cost, the rapidly increasing costs of all shooting will drive many away from the sport and handicap recruitment into the sport, hence declining from probably its current peak.
You can start to see that happing now by looking at the age group of clay shooters at the non commercial clubs.

This doesn't seem to have happened in Denmark, where they have been shooting with non-lead for nearly 25 years and the size of the shooting community is proportionately larger than in the UK (according to FACE website).