Lead ban

[hendrix's rifle]

I wonder if sierra saw this coming with the design of their new matchking X. Its a match bullet so will still be able to buy in shops but still effective on game. Almost like the ELD-M

 

[Heym SR20]

So what’s Northern Ireland doing or is lead in Ireland non-toxic?

Northern Ireland is subject to UK primary legislation, just like England, Wales and Scotland and this includes REACH regulations. Enforcement though will be down to whatever the Environment Agency in Northern Ireland is called.

Like Scotland, Northern Ireland does have a devolved administration which can pass its own legislation on devolved matters, and the court system and process is also different. NI has slightly different quarry lists, seasons and equipment that may be used - these are devolved matters which the Minister of State, or Assembly has the power to change.

NI does have slightly different firearms law, but the prohibition on lead ammo is not part of firearms law, it is part Registration Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals Legislation usually referred to as REACH.

 

[muddy42]

I'd like to see the actual wording of the law.
Not blathering by local Gestapo candidates.

Plus its got to get past the house of lords. Hopefully there are still enough old buffers there that shoot driven grouse with a pair of 1910 pudeys

 

[MilesW]

Northern Ireland is subject to UK primary legislation, just like England, Wales and Scotland and this includes REACH regulations. Enforcement though will be down to whatever the Environment Agency in Northern Ireland is called.

Like Scotland, Northern Ireland does have a devolved administration which can pass its own legislation on devolved matters, and the court system and process is also different. NI has slightly different quarry lists, seasons and equipment that may be used - these are devolved matters which the Minister of State, or Assembly has the power to change.

NI does have slightly different firearms law, but the prohibition on lead ammo is not part of firearms law, it is part Registration Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals Legislation usually referred to as REACH.

Is not NI subject to EU REACH regulation, not UK REACH regulation, and therefore not subject to a lead ban for rifle ammunition if the proposed dropping of such ammunition from the regs comes to pass , as has recently been suggested?

 

[Liveonce]

Northern Ireland is subject to UK primary legislation, just like England, Wales and Scotland and this includes REACH regulations. Enforcement though will be down to whatever the Environment Agency in Northern Ireland is called.

Like Scotland, Northern Ireland does have a devolved administration which can pass its own legislation on devolved matters, and the court system and process is also different. NI has slightly different quarry lists, seasons and equipment that may be used - these are devolved matters which the Minister of State, or Assembly has the power to change.

NI does have slightly different firearms law, but the prohibition on lead ammo is not part of firearms law, it is part Registration Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals Legislation usually referred to as REACH.

so what your saying is they can stick two fingers up at the u.k. government.

 

[Liveonce]

2) approved ranges - these will have to have facilities to capture and allow recovery of lead bullets. The approval will be from the Environment Agency, SEPA etc and the range operator will need to record how much lead is going in, and when lead recovery happens. The Agency will inspect the range, and the operating procedures prior to granting the derogation. There will be a nominated person within the club or range operating organisation who will be responsible for ensuring the range is compliant and will act as the designated inmate if none compliant. Note comments above re penalties.

And who will pay for the Environment Agency to do this work?

 

[muddy42]

I have 2 inch twelve bore, 410 and 28 bore. My assumptions is commercially available non-lead will not be available by 2029. I wont break the law, so if this goes ahead I will stockpile enough to get through to 2029. I have reloaded shotgun shells before, maybe I'll have to start again with non-lead.

 

[Heym SR20]

And who will pay for the Environment Agency to do this work?

I suspect there will be a charge to the range operator, but Environment Agencies are mostly funded by Government from tax payer money.

I am told the NRA is working closely with the Environment Agency on an approved set of guidelines on suitable facilities. Provided a range fits these guidelines approval should be very straightforward, and that there should minimal impact on the vast majority of target shooting activities.

For a range it will be a simple decision - either cover the costs of ensuring that your range is compliant for lead ammunition, with range users paying for that compliance via range and club membership fees, and continuing to allow lead ammo

Or

Prohibit use of lead ammunition on the range and users may only use non toxic and thus not having to cover costs of cleaning up the lead they have been using. But it will have a higher cost per bullet.

I have been looking at the costs for our club range where we already have a gallery range built. Deleading cost will be cost of digger and driver, with sand grading bit of kit for a couple of days. We will need to this probably once a year.

We have to make improvements to the gallery over and above simple de leading. This will be a cost for club members to bear.

 

[Liveonce]

I suspect there will be a charge to the range operator.

let’s hope they can afford to pay it, given firearms fees and HSE now work on full cost recovery so what are we looking at £1000 plus per range operator.

 

[Heym SR20]

let’s hope they can afford to pay it, given firearms fees and HSE now work on full cost recovery so what are we looking at £1000 plus per range operator.

For us with about 80 odd members that adds about £15 on our annual membership fees. It would be much less if the range was by many more members.

 

[Liveonce]

For us with about 80 odd members that adds about £15 on our annual membership fees. It would be much less if the range was by many more members.

yep let’s hope it stays affordable, the costs should have been part of the HSE proposals to give transparency.

It has the potential to be far more, if they have to employ extra staff to do the work.

 

[Liveonce]

I suspect there will be a charge to the range operator, but Environment Agencies are mostly funded by Government from tax payer money.

I am told the NRA is working closely with the Environment Agency on an approved set of guidelines on suitable facilities. Provided a range fits these guidelines approval should be very straightforward, and that there should minimal impact on the vast majority of target shooting activities.

For a range it will be a simple decision - either cover the costs of ensuring that your range is compliant for lead ammunition, with range users paying for that compliance via range and club membership fees, and continuing to allow lead ammo

Or

Prohibit use of lead ammunition on the range and users may only use non toxic and thus not having to cover costs of cleaning up the lead they have been using. But it will have a higher cost per bullet.

I have been looking at the costs for our club range where we already have a gallery range built. Deleading cost will be cost of digger and driver, with sand grading bit of kit for a couple of days. We will need to this probably once a year.

We have to make improvements to the gallery over and above simple de leading. This will be a cost for club members to bear.

or just limit the calibre used to under .243 and continue as normal

 

[Heym SR20]

let’s hope they can afford to pay it, given firearms fees and HSE now work on full cost recovery so what are we looking at £1000 plus per range operator.

Alternatively clubs and range operators can work with importers, suppliers and ammunition manufacturers to import, manufacture and load non toxic training / target ammo at a significantly lower price point than hunting ammo.

In Europe there is already, and has been for a long time, a significant market and supply of training ammo that shoots to same point of impact and trajectory as the hunting ammunition.

It’s not yet in the UK as nobody has wanted / needed to buy it.

 

[Heym SR20]

or just limit the calibre used to under .243 and continue as normal

No that doesnt work. 22 Centrefires can only be used for shooting animals as part of management and zeroing as required. It doesn’t include target shooting.

 

[Liveonce]

No that doesnt work. 22 Centrefires can only be used for shooting animals as part of management and zeroing as required. It doesn’t include target shooting.

unless your range is a zeroing range which excludes the use of competition target shooting.

 

[MilesW]

Deleading cost will be cost of digger and driver, with sand grading bit of kit for a couple of days. We will need to this probably once a year.

Until some jobsworth decides the job requires nothing less than a dedicated Hazmat spec unit with full HEPA filtration, compliant with the highest standard (with the greatest cost) they can Google, and full decontamination at jobs end. Good luck with a thousand quid.

 

[Heym SR20]

Until some jobsworth decides the job requires nothing less than a dedicated Hazmat spec unit with full HEPA filtration, compliant with the highest standard (with the greatest cost) they can Google, and full decontamination at jobs end. Good luck with a thousand quid.

Yup there is a big danger of that, including the need to paint everything pink.

One of the reasons why a best practice guidance is being drawn up. Biggest challenge will the devolved agencies wanting to be better than England.

Mind I think the Australian’s have perfected the art of jobsworth agencies given of what I here from Australian friends and SD members.

 

[Liveonce]

any club that uses MOD ranges will be able to continue without issue, given no lead ban for the military.

 

[MilesW]

Mind I think the Australian’s have perfected the art of jobsworth agencies given of what I here from Australian friends and SD members.

Not good, but not a patch on the Poms. Still a long way behind but there does seem to be a concerted effort to catch up

 

[Jagdmatch]

any club that uses MOD ranges will be able to continue without issue, given no lead ban for the military.

So clearly shops and suppliers will have to continue to stock ammunition and consumers.