Lead update.

[doric_prince]

Even if the 243 is passed as a large calibre, will lead bullets still be made available for the 243 for vermin?

Doubtful, hse proposal is lead being banned by calibre not by use. It will likely inform the legal sale of lead / non lead by calibre too.

 

[RTreble]

Do we have a fast, flat, proper expanding, affordable copper bullet in 243 available?

Have a look at Wapiti & Yew tree, both British made. Need 1:10 or 1:8 twist to stabilise.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Even if the 243 is passed as a large calibre, will lead bullets still be made available for the 243 for vermin?

If the current recommendations were made law then no. However there are no legislative proposals as yet.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

If people find that their rifle is now not fit for purpose, will there be a compensation package?

There are no compensation packages in the recommendations.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

So is it time to develop a 5.98mm Win or .241 Win cartridge with the same case form as the .243 just a tiny bit less in diameter that will bump up anyway on firing in a normal .243 rifle?

 

[Whitefront]

There are no compensation packages in the recommendations.

No doubt the government will rely on the well-established legal principle known as "the polluter pays". (No, don't blame me... I am just the piano player in this instance)

 

[25 Sharps]

The fact remains though - shot shell in 22 and 9mm is rarely used in comparison, and if they asked for a priority list - they would be well down the list of most people.

But they haven’t asked for a priority list.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

There are no compensation packages in the recommendations.

Who decides that, the HSE?

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Who decides that, the HSE?

The HSE decided what to put in its recommendations. Next its for Defra, Scottish government and Welsh government to look at those recommendations and decide what to do next.

 

[Smellydog]

What size steel shot did you try?
The advice is to go up 2 shot sizes, but I can’t see myself firing an ounce of steel 3’s at anything other than pterodactyls.
Maybe 4’s ….

#4.

 

[Morkai]

Going by how Wales handles the GL, it won't be good.

 

[Utectok]

#4.
View attachment 397962

Have you tried pointing the shotgun in the right direction before discharging it?! I find this really helps

 

[enfieldspares]

There is sufficient evidence to show stabilisation issues with .243 calibres, supported by a technical report presented by BASC. As a result, potentially 60,000 people who use .243 for deer management will have to re-barrel their rifles (80 grain .243 bullets do not stabilise in predominantly older rifles with a 1 in 12 twist as they need to be 1 in 8).

Effectively any Parker Hale rifle in .243 Winchester or, as I one had 6mm Remington, will not stabilise long bullets. I know this as my 6mm Remington wouldn't stabilise 100 grain Nosler Partition bullets.

 

[Smellydog]

Have you tried pointing the shotgun in the right direction before discharging it?! I find this really helps

 

[Dunwaters]

#4.
View attachment 397962

Nice shotty.
There are a few shot size tables on American
sites that might be helpful.
I screenshot one, the file is too big to load but it recommends up to 2’s in steel.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

No restrictions have been proposed on small calibres below .243. Ammunition will need labelling for live quarry or target shooting after the transition period.

Whilst it’s positive that the HSE is not recommending restrictions on small calibre rifle ammunition for live quarry shooting BASC does not support the HSE definition of large calibre to include .243 for restriction proposals.

There is sufficient evidence to show stabilisation issues with .243 calibres, supported by a technical report presented by BASC. As a result, potentially 60,000 people who use .243 for deer management will have to re-barrel their rifles (80 grain .243 bullets do not stabilise in predominantly older rifles with a 1 in 12 twist as they need to be 1 in 8).

BASC lobbied for large calibres to be set at 6.5mm and will continue to do so.

We will be funding research and gathering evidence to underpin further lobbying of ministers and officials on this and other issues that arise as this policy issued moves into the political arena.

I would have thought that a lead-free foxing option wouldn't need to be particularly long as it wouldn't need to weigh as much as a deer bullet. I would have thought a prefragmented front section in 50-60gr would do the job?? Something like a Geco Zero perhaps. I can't see any reason why a 55gr Geco zero wouldn't work in 1:10 twist .243's

 

[Twodogs]

The recommendation (in part) is for the ban on large calibre lead bullets for live quarry and they classify large calibre as equal to or greater than 6.17mm. 6mm or .243” being the nominal land diameter.

I have just measured nine Hornady, 6mm, 65grn V-Max and they all came out consistently at 6.15mm, so by definition not large calibre bullets. I wonder how many other 6mm bullets actually measure 6.17mm or more?

Anybody able to measure a few ‘deer’ bullets?

 

[Smellydog]

The recommendation (in part) is for the ban on large calibre lead bullets for live quarry and they classify large calibre as equal to or greater than 6.17mm. 6mm or .243” being the nominal land diameter.

I have just measured nine Hornady, 6mm, 65grn V-Max and they all came out consistently at 6.15mm, so by definition not large calibre bullets. I wonder how many other 6mm bullets actually measure 6.17mm or more?

Anybody able to measure a few ‘deer’ bullets?

I'm glad you've done this because years ago I did some measuring of 6mm bullets but can't remember the results.
If they have made a mistake and I don't know how they find this stuff so difficult it might all end up being another embarrassment to them.
It only needs a true 6mm barrel and we are good. It'll take the normal size bullet if the chamber throat is cut wide enough.

 

[Smellydog]

Nice shotty.
There are a few shot size tables on American
sites that might be helpful.
I screenshot one, the file is too big to load but it recommends up to 2’s in steel.

Thanks but no thanks. It's to cruel.

 

[Liveonce]

We will be funding research and gathering evidence to underpin further lobbying of ministers and officials on this and other issues that arise as this policy issued moves into the political arena.

Hopefully you will also be spending my money by funding research and gathering evidence to underpin further lobbying of minsters and officials that the risk of using lead shot by all within the confinement of a clay ground is acceptable.
Such evidence as restricting lead shot size to 2.2mm and smaller.