Smellydog
Well-Known Member
Yes it does sorry
Lead update.
- Thread starter gixer1
- Start date
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
It may come to that….
CUTTING EDGE BULLETS .45X.50 CALIBER 250GR COPPER HOLLOW POINT SABOT 12/BOX
.45 caliber bullets in a .50 caliber sabot, crafted from solid copper for exceptional accuracy in in-line muzzleloaders, functioning down to 1300fps.www.brownells.co.uk
You may need to look at these? I’ve wondered whether there’s any use for them since I’ve first seen them in the 90’s?
Alternatively I might have a few of them in my pocket and who can tell what I have loaded in my rifle
At the Cheltenham Wildfowling conference, when Harradine said he couldn't tell the difference between shooting lead and steel, the DTI chap pointed out that, although there was no chance of halting the wildfowling lead ban, he thought the RSPCA might find more wounding to be an issue for them to find fault with.
22cf is legal for all deer in Scotland, feasible as well.
Going off the proposal, you could even use lead
Why would you need to…… target shooting on ranges with lead capture (eg sand back stop) is fine to carry on with lead. It’s only where the capture of bullets is not possible they are proposing to
johnnytheboy
Well-Known Member
This is why wee were sold out, there as an organisation, the British game association trying to get game on the table and in the supermarkets, did they not they pushed this narrative and the shooting orgs were in hook line and sinker!I think it was all driven by money - at the time I remember there were a few big estates doing massive bag days, 2500 birds and so on.
The little local mom and pop game dealers weren’t going to be able to take 8000 birds a week so these estates needed another alternative. I remember one was filmed burying the birds in a pit and rightly castigated for doing so.
These estates then approached the like of John Lewis and M&S touting a line of locally sourced wild game which would appeal to the Barbour wearing urbanites who frequent such establishments. These shops said “ok but you have to shoot it with non toxic” because they knew the second the likes of fatty, batty and ****ty saw there was lead shot game on the shelves they’d be printing it all over the guardian and that would be the end of it.
All of a sudden the shooting orgs dropped their previously united front that there is no evidence and no need for a lead ban and started pushing the voluntary five year transition. Needless to say once the voluntary transition was being touted from within it wasn’t going to take some chinless greysuit in gubment long to make it law and here we are.
And the big bag shoots are still running, and Waitrose are selling partridge.
Or maybe I’m just a cynic
Druid
Well-Known Member
Fair point, initial reading made me think there was only a 2 year derogation but that was to allow de-leading practices to be implemented.
Down to range, perhaps, and choking of the guns used.
Is that the same as the British game alliance that I think is now the british game assurance?
If so follow the money that funds them or one of them.
Dunwaters
Well-Known Member
This is the real elephant in the room.
You guys are going to be forced to use steel shot in the clay shooting disciplines, but for international competitions the regulations specify lead.
Will international competitions taking place in Britain be forced to comply with the non lead restrictions and if your competitors are heading abroad, will they be allowed to purchase, practice and compete using the ammunition type mandated by the Internationally agreed regulations?
yes if you read the HSE document the few will be allowed to continue to use lead shot for practice etc., all purchases and sales of lead shot to them must be recorded and reported to some higher authority in government. Only authorised supplier will be able to sell it to them. How that will all work in practice given the few and equally as few lead shot cartridges needed will be a challenge I would expect the cost of the cartridges to significantly increase. And then where will they practice as grounds become toxic free why would they want lead back. Then what is the progression path to becoming a future international competitor allowed to use lead.
Of course the wildlife will need to be told not to pick up the toxic lead shot also at shooting ground A but it is ok at shooting ground B as that is non toxic shot.
It’s a totally impractical illogical idea, lead for clay shooting stays for all or for none.
Conor O'Gorman
Well-Known Member
A BASC overview has been published and is here:
basc.org.uk
Moving away from lead: the next stage
The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) has sent its final recommendations to the government on restriction proposals for lead ammunition.
basc.org.uk
Morkai
Well-Known Member
If one of the issues was masses of lead being deposited into the soil, then I would assume that game and clay shooting contributes to that more than rifle based hunting.
If the other issue was lead in the food chain (going to public consumption) then shooting deer for personal consumption with lead really isnt an issue.
It seems to be a blanket approach when it doesn't need to be.
The governing bodies are able to put out tables for the GL showing what can and can't be shot under certain criteria. The same could be done for the continued use of lead based and non-lead ammunition.
If the other issue was lead in the food chain (going to public consumption) then shooting deer for personal consumption with lead really isnt an issue.
It seems to be a blanket approach when it doesn't need to be.
The governing bodies are able to put out tables for the GL showing what can and can't be shot under certain criteria. The same could be done for the continued use of lead based and non-lead ammunition.
So that's thirty-four tons of lead shot* that will be OK? Has BASC an intent to argue that the "tonnage" of lead shot from .22 Rimfire and 9mm Rimfire shotguns (such as the Webley & Scott bolt action) will be a mere fraction of this and that there are no non-lead alternative .22 Rimfire or 9mm Rimfire shotgun cartridges.
Or will they lobby for compensation to be paid for these guns?
1,250,000 divided by 16 gives the ounce load set as maximum in the UK for clay competitions. This is 78,125 pounds divided by 2,240 gives 34.87 tons. I am glad I am old enough (and mentally competent enough) to remember tons, pounds and ounces.
My suggestion...and I am loathe to play that card...is to see what the Reform Party says, If they oppose it and undertake if elected to government to repeal it this may carry weight in those rural constituencies where they are running the Tories a close second. This then may swing the Tory Party against it.
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That’s a much to sensible approach, but as the voluntary transition for live quarry has shown and if we believe the HSE they know only a complete ban will ensure lead shot is not used where it should not be.
It’s a big win for game shooting and what the commercial players have wanted so they can promote the sale of game as being lead free. Will that help improve game sales and make the activity less controversial only time will tell but 2030 is away of yet.
Enfieldspares with all due respect the shooting organisations that signed up to the voluntary transition which has failed miserably have got exactly what they wanted, mine and your 9mm garden gun are just noise in the process that is irrelevant. BASC are unhappy about the situation around ,243 but make no comment that it is madness on one hand to say lead is ok for international sportspersons to continue to use but not for the rest of us on tiny parcels of land within the confines of a clay ground. Why because they want to see the end of lead shot in the hope the market for commercial game will justify shooting them and the likes of WJ are happy.
2030 is away yet so shoot what you like until then.
Last as I have said before why did BASC reject the New Zealand model? Because this isn't about welfare of wild birds ingesting lead shot as grit (which the New Zealand model addresses) but about protecting the British Game Alliance and the defence of big bag shooting that the activity is "harvesting wild game for the table".
I would once more suggest that MPs are lobbied to look at the New Zealand model which is below and which still allows use of lead shot if two hundred meters away from water more than three metres wide. It would be quite easy to cut and paste the link in an email to an MP.
I also note that in the UK for use for freshwater angling that the equivalent of English #8 lead shot is still permitted to anglers. So again...and this would permit clay shooting to continue...a derogation for all shooters for clay pigeon cartridges using English #8 or smaller would have been arguable?
www.fishandgame.org.nz
I would once more suggest that MPs are lobbied to look at the New Zealand model which is below and which still allows use of lead shot if two hundred meters away from water more than three metres wide. It would be quite easy to cut and paste the link in an email to an MP.
I also note that in the UK for use for freshwater angling that the equivalent of English #8 lead shot is still permitted to anglers. So again...and this would permit clay shooting to continue...a derogation for all shooters for clay pigeon cartridges using English #8 or smaller would have been arguable?
Non-toxic shot regulations
Hunters are required to use non-toxic shot when hunting waterfowl within 200 metres of water. 2021 saw a complete ban on the use of lead shot for all but 410 gauge, and that exemption ended at the end of the 2023 game bird hunting season. This ban will be strictly enforced on public, private...
www.fishandgame.org.nz
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