Lee Enfield smle

[Twodogs]

No it doesn't. It indicates that it was a Mk I made with the three pieces of the Mk I bolt release catch being replaced by a simple cut out slot on the bolt guide.

The Mk 2 was a post war re-design and of the No4 with the trigger hung from the receiver metal and not, as per the Mk I from the wooden forestock. A Mk I brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/2 and a Mk 1* brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/3.

That's not to say however that the OP's rifle wasn't subsequently modified by say Fulton's or Parker's to have the trigger hung from the receiver metal. But a No 4 Mk I* is as noted above.

Pedant alert.

Correct in that the bolt release catch was replaced with a slot cut in the ribway near the front of the receiver. There were various other minor economy measure differences. These rifles, No4 Mk1*, were only made by Savage in the States and Long Branch in Canada.

Long Branch also produced a quantity of No4 Mk1*'s in the early fifties, long after Britain had cased production of the Mk1's, in response to a perceive need for the Korean conflict.

The MK2 trigger was indeed mounted directly onto the receiver instead of on the trigger guard, not the wooden fore stock. The Mk2 can be readily identified by the presence of a long transverse screw through the rear of the fore end.

 

[Twodogs]

You cannot tell how an SMLE or No.4 will shoot by looking at it. I have seen an SMLE with a bore that looked like a smokestack shoot 5 rounds of surplus ammo into 1.5 inches at 100 yards.

And the bolts on both Enfields have head which just unscrew by hand, so you can adjust the firing pin or change it. These heads came in different thicknesses, so the right one could be mounted to the bolt to set the headspace.

If you want a really accurate one, look for a No.4 Mk1 or Mk2 with an 'FTR' marking: "Factory Through Repair". These were hand selected, then gone over, parts replaced, tuned up, and stored, after the Second World War and Korea. Some are already drilled for sniper scope mounting, and some of those already have the wooden cheekpiece added.

There were a bunch of new, never issued No.4 Mk2 Enfields in the cloth and paper wrap stored in arsenals in Ireland. In the mid-1990s, the British Army pulled them from stores and sold them off. Many found their way to Canada and the USA.

I hunt with my SMLEs, my SMLE conversion .22 LR, my No.4s, and my No.5 Jungle Carbine ( my first, gotten at age 12 in a swap for my Webley revolver ).

And that SMLE with the smokestack barrel which was brought in for repair to a gunsmith and military collector friend of mine to replace the firing pin.... the old timer said he had killed 67 deer with it, and considered it charmed.

FTR = Factory Thorough Repair. Rifles were not specially selected other than they needed some form of refurbishment/overhaul. In FTR they were brought back to issue spec and re-issued.

Sniper rifle selection is an essay in its own right but has nothing to do with the FTR status of any rifle. Any rifle selected for sniper use was overhauled by Holland and Holland not by the standard FTR system.

 

[enfieldspares]

Pedant alert! LOL! Yes you're correct. On the Mk I the trigger was mounted on the trigger guard that fitted into the forend stock and screwed through that into the receiver.

I omitted that part in haste. Supposedly the Mk 2 type trigger mount is superior. As the sear engagement isn't compromised by any changes to the wood forestock.

FWIW having forty years plus ago charge of about four score plus of the things in an armoury I preferred the Mk I style system as it was easier to strip the rifle.

And as the Mk I system worked well enough for the No 4 (T ) I think it, the Mk 2 system, solves a problem as regards trigger pull issues that I never found to actually exist.

 

[alberta boy]

I have a few different versions of the No 4 , Mrk1's , Mrk1*'s , Mrk2 and Mrk1/2 . The latter two are a better designed trigger , but I've used the same No4Mrk1 since dirt was invented with no issues ...... but then again , the No4's are a pretty solid rifle , condition withstanding . I even have a No5 that defies the odds and shoots really well , there's a picture of it and a Jungle Scout I have on here somewhere . I don't have as many as Muir , but I have a pretty representative collection of them , great rifles .

AB

 

[Muir]

I think the NoI Mk1 is the best. Something about the sliding charger bridge and the cartridge cut off.....~Muir

 

[Southern]

FTR = Factory Thorough Repair. Rifles were not specially selected other than they needed some form of refurbishment/overhaul. In FTR they were brought back to issue spec and re-issued.

Sniper rifle selection is an essay in its own right but has nothing to do with the FTR status of any rifle. Any rifle selected for sniper use was overhauled by Holland and Holland not by the standard FTR system.

yes, I have a No. 4 tuned by Holland & Holland, one of three I bought that day. It is also marked as FTR.

 

[Pedro]

I've got a No4 Mk2 that is fairly accurate. But having said that, it's not really as accurate as pretty much any centrefire rifle you can buy new today. You've got to remember that they were produced as a battle rifle, shooting at man-sized targets generally within 100 yards. Don't get me wrong they can be, or can be made to be, pretty accurate though.

Although I don't use mine for stalking, I would think they are quite accurate enough for use in woodland stalking. There the open sights you might even find have an advantage over a scope in that target acquisition will be faster. No need for attaching anything!

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Hi lads. Looking to get soon an smle rifle. I will be looking to use it for deer hunting. Is there any way to attach mounts without causing damage to its original state. I don't think my eyes would be up to using iron sights.
Anyone know a reputable seller of these rifles as well.
Cn

CN, I had similar family connections with the SMLE, this was mine in the pic, with the PH receiver. Re-barreled by a previous owner, my eyes were not good enough to stalk with it. Great old battle rifles....

 

[Sonicdmb73]

No it doesn't. It indicates that it was a Mk I made with the three pieces of the Mk I bolt release catch being replaced by a simple cut out slot on the bolt guide.

The Mk 2 was a post war re-design and of the No4 with the trigger hung from the receiver metal and not, as per the Mk I from the wooden forestock. A Mk I brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/2 and a Mk 1* brought up to Mk 2 standards was designated Mk 1/3.

That's not to say however that the OP's rifle wasn't subsequently modified by say Fulton's or Parker's to have the trigger hung from the receiver metal. But a No 4 Mk I* is as noted above.

That was what I recalled from when I researched it. Not to say it was entirely accurate information it was from various sources on the net.
The fact you say that they were Long Branch or Savage is interesting in it confirms my thoughts it was a Long Branch. I aged it from the proof marks on the 7.62 barrel for the conversion. And I believe serial numbers and other marks I no longer have the rifle. Unfortunately the breach failed, but that’s a different story.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

CN, I had similar family connections with the SMLE, this was mine in the pic, with the PH receiver. Re-barreled by a previous owner, my eyes were not good enough to stalk with it. Great old battle rifles..View attachment 129666..

Your rifle from just the photo looks like a commercially produced ‘target’ SMLE @1920’s and regulated by Parker Hale, (you say it’s a Parker Hale receiver) most likely made by BSA & Co.
It’s very clean seems well looked after, just the type you wouldn’t walk past without asking to look at it, possibly buying it.
I have one very similar to yours, commercial target made by BSA & Co regulated by Alex Martin of Glasgow, shoots way better than l can!

I’m sure you will correct me if I’m wrong on any or all of my points.

 

[cervusnippon2013]

What's the difference with a 'commercial target' rifle to the others?

 

[Fosbery Holster]

What's the difference with a 'commercial target' rifle to the others?

Basic difference “monetary value”, apart from the obvious values, the service rifle will have on the butt socket (the wide blued socket into which the butt is fitted and bolted) regimental marks, military acceptance marks, various marks and production year etc etc; whereas on the ‘commercial target ‘SMLE’ the butt socket will only be marked with the manufacturer name, e.g. BSA & Co this is just an example, I’m no expert, also on some there could be a recoil bolt through the woodwork inline roughly with the front end of the receiver (where the barrel is screwed in) but obviously just through the woodwork below the receiver and barrel.
Also the top of the front of the receiver might be marked with the person or company who regulated the rifle e.g. Fulton ( Fulton’s of Bisley), Martin Glasgow, and others, I’m sure other members of this forum will expand on this point.
Commercially produced target rifles should appear with a better finish, the metalwork, the woodwork could look polished, may even be being sold with added target sights, BSA, Parker Hale, Tippins etc.
Usually if the rifle is being purchased through a reputable dealer the rifle will be advertised as a commercial target type, and will cost more!
They do stand out if compared to a service rifle in a rack of SMLE’s.

 

[Harry mac]

P14 / M17 Enfields are, arguably the best battle rifle of WW1 .

AB

Only if you're actually looking for an argument!!

 

[Harry mac]

If you do manage to get a Lee Enfield in military trim scoped up, remember to install a cheek piece or comb riser. If you don't, the comb of the butt will tap you gently on the jaw every time you pull the trigger. You don't notice it much for a shot or two, but it quickly loses its novelty after that.

end_of_stalk_Success

First animal taken with No5 Mk1 Lee Enfield.

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Roe_buck_210509

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

BSA Mod E

Sporting rifle modified from a P14 military rifle by BSA in the early 50's.

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Follow the links for a couple of happy snaps of me with the No5, and one of my "proper" .303 stalking rifle.

 

[cervusnippon2013]

Nice pics Harry Mac, did you stick a pair of ear plugs in for the no5 shot ?

 

[alberta boy]

If you do manage to get a Lee Enfield in military trim scoped up, remember to install a cheek piece or comb riser. If you don't, the comb of the butt will tap you gently on the jaw every time you pull the trigger. You don't notice it much for a shot or two, but it quickly loses its novelty after that.

end_of_stalk_Success

First animal taken with No5 Mk1 Lee Enfield.

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Roe_buck_210509

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

BSA Mod E

Sporting rifle modified from a P14 military rifle by BSA in the early 50's.

www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk

Follow the links for a couple of happy snaps of me with the No5, and one of my "proper" .303 stalking rifle.

Excellent pics , No5's make very handy hunting rifles . I like the old Beezer as well , arguably the better rifle ......... see what I did there lol .

AB

 

[Southern]

Love that No.5, HarryMac! How do you have the scope mounted?
What sort of hunting ammunition is available for the .303 in the UK, or do you folks have to roll your own?

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Love that No.5, HarryMac! How do you have the scope mounted?
What sort of hunting ammunition is available for the .303 in the UK, or do you folks have to roll your own?

I certainly would love to know if commercial ammunition in .303 was available for Stalking, or do you have to load your own??

 

[enfieldspares]

Remember that in Scotland the minimum legal velocity was set at 2,450fps...the velocity through a nominal twenty five inch long SMLE or No4 barrel.

A Pattern '14 has a twenty six inch long barrel. No problem there then. But a No 5 might have problems reaching that velocity.

So you could use 150 grain bullets but then your factory issue military rights would be out save, solely, at the chosen zeroing distance.

I had a friend who actually preferred for ALL quarry the old 215 grain bullet at a factory 2,150fps or thereabouts. That'd now be illegal in Scotland.

I don't what minimum velocity or muzzle energy is required ( or not) where the rifle is to be used. But bear in mind that old Enfield isn't the fastest of arms.

 

[cervusnippon2013]

Remember that in Scotland the minimum legal velocity was set at 2,450fps...the velocity through a nominal twenty five inch long SMLE or No4 barrel.

A Pattern '14 has a twenty six inch long barrel. No problem there then. But a No 5 might have problems reaching that velocity.

So you could use 150 grain bullets but then your factory issue military rights would be out save, solely, at the chosen zeroing distance.

I had a friend who actually preferred for ALL quarry the old 215 grain bullet at a factory 2,150fps or thereabouts. That'd now be illegal in Scotland.

I don't what minimum velocity or muzzle energy is required ( or not) where the rifle is to be used. But bear in mind that old Enfield isn't the fastest of arms.

Thanks, I'll look into this too.