Blacknsilver
Well-Known Member
looks quite impressive. A bit more to setting it up but I like it.
Magnetospeed Chronograph
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looks quite impressive. A bit more to setting it up but I like it.
Blacknsilver
Well-Known Member
A quick google check and a read finds this
mm, Grungel, having also extensively tested the Super Chrono against our extremely accurate Oehler 43 lightbox setup, I'm sorry but I have to disagree.
It has some real issues that make it pretty useless for serious statistical analysis and any sort of down range BC calculations.
Firstly, even if set up perfectly parallel with the bullets path and giving approximately correct average velocities, it does not give consistent enough readings to be able to say anything about ES or SD. It plainly is not accurate enough. And this has nothing to do with muzzle blast as our range hut is set up with an 8' long suppressor box we shoot through before we even get to the chronographs, so there is no muzzle blast whatsoever.
It also is far too sensitive to being ever so slightly off parallel with the bullets path, due to the speed of sound being so much slower than the speed of light. This does not affect the light sensing chronos like most of the others (except for the magneto speed), but has a huge effect on the accuracy of the Super Chrono. The simple open sights that it comes with are not good enough to ensure a true parallel alignment. It needs some sort of accurate optical sight like a mini scope sight or similar as quality surveying equipment has.
Bryan Litz also did some serious testing of all these chronys in his latest book, and he found the exact same issues with the Super Chrono - inconsistent accuracy.
Great idea being able to get away from the light issues associated with skyscreen type chronys outdoors, and not having to be on the muzzle like the magneto Speed, but simply not accurate enough to be of much use. Hopefully Steinert can overcome some of these issues and come out with a version 2 that really is a game changer, but from my testing, this one is not. I'm sure they'll have to go to much wider sensor spacings to get the accuracy to start with, then sort the alignment issue.
mm, Grungel, having also extensively tested the Super Chrono against our extremely accurate Oehler 43 lightbox setup, I'm sorry but I have to disagree.
It has some real issues that make it pretty useless for serious statistical analysis and any sort of down range BC calculations.
Firstly, even if set up perfectly parallel with the bullets path and giving approximately correct average velocities, it does not give consistent enough readings to be able to say anything about ES or SD. It plainly is not accurate enough. And this has nothing to do with muzzle blast as our range hut is set up with an 8' long suppressor box we shoot through before we even get to the chronographs, so there is no muzzle blast whatsoever.
It also is far too sensitive to being ever so slightly off parallel with the bullets path, due to the speed of sound being so much slower than the speed of light. This does not affect the light sensing chronos like most of the others (except for the magneto speed), but has a huge effect on the accuracy of the Super Chrono. The simple open sights that it comes with are not good enough to ensure a true parallel alignment. It needs some sort of accurate optical sight like a mini scope sight or similar as quality surveying equipment has.
Bryan Litz also did some serious testing of all these chronys in his latest book, and he found the exact same issues with the Super Chrono - inconsistent accuracy.
Great idea being able to get away from the light issues associated with skyscreen type chronys outdoors, and not having to be on the muzzle like the magneto Speed, but simply not accurate enough to be of much use. Hopefully Steinert can overcome some of these issues and come out with a version 2 that really is a game changer, but from my testing, this one is not. I'm sure they'll have to go to much wider sensor spacings to get the accuracy to start with, then sort the alignment issue.
Toller
Well-Known Member
OK, wow!
Great review. Very interesting your observations about optical chronos varying so much depending on available light. I'm always suspicious about that.
It seems like the magnetospeed is a compromise. It would suit doing some load development without measuring MVs, then capture MVs with the magnetospeed afterwards.
The labradar seems incredible though.
Is it not a better solution to fire groupings to find the lowest spread, then fine tune that load by altering COL. Rather than fire groups the give the tightest results without a chronograph, then chronograph them after..?
Not really. Low ES and SD are not guarantee of accuracy. It is simply and indicator of the quality of the ammo. It says nothing about the suitability of the tested ammo for the rifle in question. In these days of ultra long, low drag bullets that test the limits of stability from modern hunting rifles, you could easily end up with a load that really isn't stable in your rifle yet gives great stats. I find it better to find the load and then chronograph.~Muir
Ah ok, you get some saying you can find a decent load by just shooting rounds through a chrono even into the ground and find the least spread/deviation from your findings then tweak col, saying it gives better results for longer range shooting..
Personally I have just stuck with normal load development, working up and checking groups.. although I'm not happy with my current chrony, its a little erratic or just doesn't work dependant on time of day,thats why I'm considering other options..
Are you happy you chose the Labradar over the Magneto Spotter Muir?
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
I now use a chronograph to choose the powder charge to keep ES and SD low as it is for a long range set up. once a good charge has been found I can tweak accuracy with OAL. This way I know the rounds should perform consistently at long range and also I can throw the charges direct rather than weigh everyone and still keep the ES very low and great accuracy. Also I found the issue with my 222 not grouping, down to the velocities being under less than that expected on minimum charges by a few hundred fps. Using the chronograph to work out best velocity without pressure signs I've got the groups down to less than half inch.
I didn't really choose one over the other. I walked into the gun shop, saw the Lab Radar and bought it. I hadn't intended on purchasing anything that day. I have several Chrony Chronographs and have had no real issue. Light source and angle does play with them so I built an opaque cover that goes over the entire unit. In use I shoot through a window in the cover and across the screens. It seems to act as a diffuser and stabilize / uniform the results. The Lab Radar is more accurate, I believe, and allows me to track the bullet to 100 yards. As i mentioned, this allows me to go to my favorite ballistic's program and plug in the start and finish velocities along with environmental conditions and get a true ballistic coefficient for my shooting conditions. Knowing ES and SD are nice but real time BC calculation can be a more useful tool. The Lab Radar does it without having to shoot across a chronograph at long range (risking a hit) and having to deal with power sources. Lab Radar has a learning curve. I shut down the doppler between strings to save batteries and sure enough, I'll forget to turn it back on before beginning a new string. Other than an old man's mental lapse, it is still pretty straight forward with regards to the screen set up and use. I like it.
I have some loads waiting chronographing but the temperatures are out of Lab Radar's operating range so it will have to wait til warmer weather.~Muir
Muir, be interested to hear more about your cover for the Chrony. I have taken to putting a sheet over the top on a sunny day, but would like to do something more permanent. Does any cover have to be opaque or can you shut all the light out?
I used the opaque bottom to a 'tupperware' container that weas square and had enought area to overhang the Chrony. I burned holes in the lid for the "V" rods and used springs slid over and epoxied onto the rods as stops for the plastic hood. I cut a window to shot throgh front and back.
As to your question, I think it does need light. I just figured the covers that came with it were opaque and so I went that route. I have had some luck in low light taping a pair of cheap LED 1$ flashlights beam down onto the diffuser over the screens. I like the cover and an added plus is that when you are done, you can pack up your chrony in the tub and carry it to the car.~Muir
As to your question, I think it does need light. I just figured the covers that came with it were opaque and so I went that route. I have had some luck in low light taping a pair of cheap LED 1$ flashlights beam down onto the diffuser over the screens. I like the cover and an added plus is that when you are done, you can pack up your chrony in the tub and carry it to the car.~Muir
acj375
Well-Known Member
Yes!!
Thanks Muir, I will try that.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
A lot of people are mentioning using a chronograph in conjunction with accuracy but I got mine to check if my reloads had sufficient ME/MV to be deer legal.
Theres a lot use cheap stick on LED lights on there chronys when light is poor with good results..
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