Multiple rifles for deer, good reasoning ?

[charlieboy-shooter]

Hi,

Reading the thread regarding the 30-06 being to powerful and the associated Good Reason etc has got me wondering and hence not wanting to hijack that thread.

I have been thinking of putting in for a variation for a 7mm-08 but am concerned about my Good Reason. I know there is only one way to find out for sure but thought I would seek some advice 1st.

I currently have the following conditioned for deer.
.243win
6.5x55 SE
.308 Win.

Reasons.
1) I do not want only 1 deer calibre ready at any one time. As things have and do happen so a 2nd back up rifle ready to go is a good to have. Plus the farmer isn't interested if I can't get out as I have a rifle issue.

2) The .243 is used for fox now, albeit in conjunction with another .22CF.

3) 6.5x55 has a thermal scope ( without going into my main reason but an additional factor for having is. in some area's the deer consistently enter / leave the land the last 15 mins or less of legal shooting window) This allows me to confidently take shots in the last knockings when the bucks and does are both in season. Not comfortable using it when Bucks only in case I get the sex wrong. Therefore only used Nov - March.

4) .308win used Bucks only and proper stalking / small woodland as opposed to just high seat/ static. Relatively light weight, 20" barrel. In truth I find the recoil at times not ideal. A wuss, I know but still very effective even with me behind it.

5) Although brought on by myself. I don't currently fulfil reason 1 as 6.5 not used this time of year and .243 set up for longer range fox or the seemingly endless windy conditions so only down to the .308 good to go.


7mm-08 hope to have less recoil and allow for longer high seat work as and when the (fallow) deer are out in the open in big groups at certain times of the year. Plus a back up rifle

Just reasoning ?? or full of -----

thanks

 

[Eric the Red]

You're overthinking it. The good reason is the deer on the land you have and the land being suitable. The conditions are to allow you to use the rifle legally in intended use. I imagine they are all actually AOLQ, with a main species given according to the capability of the calibre. What you have laid out is a relatively sensible rationale - but you shouldn't need to go to that level of detail with an FEO. 243 may be a deer legal calibre, but I use it in the main for foxing Mr FEO (obvs). If the 6.5 Swede is set up as a thermal rifle, all well and good - that's a different tool of trade from the 308. All things considered, if your security and cabinet space is adequate they shouldn't even blink. Is a 7-08 that different from a 308? Well that is for you to find out/assess - why not shoot lighter bullets out of the 308? I would look at your bullet weight ranges and make sure you're not picking a complete overlap - you'll end up with a cabinet queen.......

Thinking about the way you're set up, you're limiting the way you use the rifles by set up. It feels like the thermal on the 308 covers your use better, with the Swede left as a solid all-round gun - you're clearly confident with it and it's more than adequate for the longer shots. Just a thought....

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Hi,

Reading the thread regarding the 30-06 being to powerful and the associated Good Reason etc has got me wondering and hence not wanting to hijack that thread.

I have been thinking of putting in for a variation for a 7mm-08 but am concerned about my Good Reason. I know there is only one way to find out for sure but thought I would seek some advice 1st.

I currently have the following conditioned for deer.
.243win
6.5x55 SE
.308 Win.

Reasons.
1) I do not want only 1 deer calibre ready at any one time. As things have and do happen so a 2nd back up rifle ready to go is a good to have. Plus the farmer isn't interested if I can't get out as I have a rifle issue.

2) The .243 is used for fox now, albeit in conjunction with another .22CF.

3) 6.5x55 has a thermal scope ( without going into my main reason but an additional factor for having is. in some area's the deer consistently enter / leave the land the last 15 mins or less of legal shooting window) This allows me to confidently take shots in the last knockings when the bucks and does are both in season. Not comfortable using it when Bucks only in case I get the sex wrong. Therefore only used Nov - March.

4) .308win used Bucks only and proper stalking / small woodland as opposed to just high seat/ static. Relatively light weight, 20" barrel. In truth I find the recoil at times not ideal. A wuss, I know but still very effective even with me behind it.

5) Although brought on by myself. I don't currently fulfil reason 1 as 6.5 not used this time of year and .243 set up for longer range fox or the seemingly endless windy conditions so only down to the .308 good to go.


7mm-08 hope to have less recoil and allow for longer high seat work as and when the (fallow) deer are out in the open in big groups at certain times of the year. Plus a back up rifle

Just reasoning ?? or full of -----

thanks

Why waste more good money on more rifles you don’t need?

from what I’m reading you already have 2 too many as it is!

Understandably, if you’re a professional, do you need 2 rifles, if you’re a recreational only going out, maybe once a week or less you only need one rifle!

I personally had one rifle, and I shot that for 15 years, averaging, 220 outings a year killing 150 to 180 deer year!

 

[jimmy milnes]

There's an old saying...
"Beware The Man With One Rifle"
Having said that I have two, however I've one I use all the time which is 6.5x47 and one Rifle which is 30-06 that is load developed an zeroed with a yewtree copper round in case its needed for an invite where its copper only allowed
Jimmy.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

There's an old saying...
"Beware The Man With One Rifle"
Having said that I have two, however I've one I use all the time which is 6.5x47 and one Rifle which is 30-06 that is load developed an zeroed with a yewtree copper round in case its needed for an invite where its copper only allowed
Jimmy.

I am now back down to 1 rifle, had a massive thin out, in fact I am now down to the bare arse minimum!

Just the 7x57 now, the old 270 is near enough sold and with my RFD.

If i had the time and the enthusiasm I could step back up to the plate and go back to 180-200 head a year with1 rifle no issues.

But I no longer have the time or the enthusiasm

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmmm.
You have some sound advice above so go for it.
As an aside, out of pure curiosity and definitely not for the FEO’s eyes, if you are in England, why can you one not shoot deer with the 6.5 and thermal in daylight?

 

[gixer1]

Life is too short to be boring and have one rifle - sure, one rifle may do it all but variety is the spice of life so if you want a different chambering - go for it!

My reasoning was one for range work and deer with a higher mag scope (a workhorse if you will) (6.5)

One for larger species and maybe boar and trips abroad if it takes my fancy (30-06)

A lighter weight rifle built for occasional use that can also accommodate a thermal and lower mag scope (6.5)

And a deer/vermin rifle that can be nightvision or swapped to deer (243win)

Regards,
Gixer

 

[wildfowler.250]

I’m going to other way . Used to think variety is the spice of life but it’s just more scopes / cabinet space / reloading time for new bullets / time where one of two rifles is likely gathering dust.

Rimfire, 22CF and a ‘biggy’ for me if I was to start all over again.

 

[TringSaint]

Hi,

Reading the thread regarding the 30-06 being to powerful and the associated Good Reason etc has got me wondering and hence not wanting to hijack that thread.

I have been thinking of putting in for a variation for a 7mm-08 but am concerned about my Good Reason. I know there is only one way to find out for sure but thought I would seek some advice 1st.

I currently have the following conditioned for deer.
.243win
6.5x55 SE
.308 Win.

Reasons.
1) I do not want only 1 deer calibre ready at any one time. As things have and do happen so a 2nd back up rifle ready to go is a good to have. Plus the farmer isn't interested if I can't get out as I have a rifle issue.

2) The .243 is used for fox now, albeit in conjunction with another .22CF.

3) 6.5x55 has a thermal scope ( without going into my main reason but an additional factor for having is. in some area's the deer consistently enter / leave the land the last 15 mins or less of legal shooting window) This allows me to confidently take shots in the last knockings when the bucks and does are both in season. Not comfortable using it when Bucks only in case I get the sex wrong. Therefore only used Nov - March.

4) .308win used Bucks only and proper stalking / small woodland as opposed to just high seat/ static. Relatively light weight, 20" barrel. In truth I find the recoil at times not ideal. A wuss, I know but still very effective even with me behind it.

5) Although brought on by myself. I don't currently fulfil reason 1 as 6.5 not used this time of year and .243 set up for longer range fox or the seemingly endless windy conditions so only down to the .308 good to go.


7mm-08 hope to have less recoil and allow for longer high seat work as and when the (fallow) deer are out in the open in big groups at certain times of the year. Plus a back up rifle

Just reasoning ?? or full of -----

thanks

Do you do target shooting at a club you are a member of? If so then reason can come from a new calibre for modern derive rifle or whatever and also have alq added.
How I got my 3 which are the same as yours

 

[Ratel]

I am now back down to 1 rifle, had a massive thin out, in fact I am now down to the bare arse minimum!

Just the 7x57 now, the old 270 is near enough sold and with my RFD.

If i had the time and the enthusiasm I could step back up to the plate and go back to 180-200 head a year with1 rifle no issues.

But I no longer have the time or the enthusiasm

You kept the right one. I am the same now, one deer rifle 7x57 and a.22 Hornet for others. Used to have two deer rifles when full time at it but now with help no need

 

[griff]

I only have 2 rifles a 30-06 and 7mm-08, I have a spare barrel for each, same caliber but just in case one decides to give up the game. I don't think that I have used the 7-08 for over 2 years, it is there just as back up, I even considered selling it..
The -06 does everthing I need it to, is it as good as my o'l 7RM, no its not but its cheap to feed and I can get ammo in most places. Unfortunately I have 3 species of deer to contend with some weighing in at 7kg and some at 150kg, the -06 within reason is ample for all.

 

[TringSaint]

I think it also depends on what you shoot.
My 243 is used for geese, foxes and small deer, esp when I know I will be shooting out to 200+m. 6.5 is for everything in reasonable range and the 308 is for woodland.

Depending on which permission I am going to, I will take the appropriate rifle, knowing that if push comes to shove they will all do the business, maybe just not quite as well as the purpose built one.

Could I justify a 4th? Maybe if I did hill stalking as all of my rifles have some weight to them, but then it would likely be a calibre bounce up, so another 6.5 or 308.

But, as I live in deepest Hertfordshire, there isn’t much hill stalking to be had, so no need for a 4th.

 

[T.eddie]

I think best best is to just have a chat with the FEO, you have your reasoning there so hopefully that would be enough. Im not sure what our newer FEO is like since the last retired but worth a go, the worst they can do is say no

 

[charlieboy-shooter]

Thinking about the way you're set up, you're limiting the way you use the rifles by set up. It feels like the thermal on the 308 covers your use better,

Agreed. I just set it up this way as I had a copper load I was happy using in the 6.5 first and wanted to try the thermal out. May well swap around when the Fallow are soon to be out of season.

Why waste more good money on more rifles you don't need?

Another valid point, but got to spend it on something and in truth I may well ultimately move one of the other calibres on. I'm fortunate enough that I can afford another. I see from some of your other remarks albeit shooting far more deer than me you eventually narrowed it down to a 7x57 ( ironically my 1st consideration in a 7mm). So I guess I am still on that journey to finding that one which is ah just so. I would love to be able to try numerous calibres and settle one 2 which I just total enjoy and have confidence in but our system does not allow that.

Understandably, if you’re a professional, do you need 2 rifles, if you’re a recreational only going out, maybe once a week or less you only need one rifle!

Having had factory loaded ammunition loaded with 2 bullets in the one cartridge, which I fired and thankfully did not destroy the gun. or injure me. That said the rifle went away for months to the proof house and then once returned had a issue with maintaining a zero. I had prepaid for a stalking package and only had the 1 rifle at the time. So only a recreational stalker but with my own land now and generally out more than once a week.

Hmmm.
You have some sound advice above so go for it.
As an aside, out of pure curiosity and definitely not for the FEO’s eyes, if you are in England, why can you one not shoot deer with the 6.5 and thermal in daylight?

I take it you mean go for the 7mm-08 as I have some sound advice from my opening post ?

Regarding the thermal, yes I can shoot deer in daylight and treat it as the limitations of a day scope and not push it to the last legal knockings but depending on the size of the group and movement of deer in a herd I can't always be 100% sure of the sex of the animal I'm about to shoot. Single animals or small group, yes. large groups with deer moving about once one presents its self and safe great. I don't want any doubt as I know that leads to poorer shots. Don't want to shoot a doe out of season just like despite having a thermal does not mean I will shoot once its illegal even though I could. ( Always photo or message farmer / misses CB-S to get a time stamp)

Life is too short to be boring and have one rifle - sure, one rifle may do it all but variety is the spice of life so if you want a different chambering - go for it!

Agreed. see above would like the option to give several a real try.
I have spent a fair bit of cash in the pursuit of a Boar and still haven't seen one other than hanging in the game dealers. Hence the .308 isn't going and @Eric the Red is possibly 100% correct with the thermal on the .308 for that very reason to as its still something I want to do.

So, one of the things I have noticed with man, we do not seem to learn by others mistakes or advice we need to find out ourselves. As I'm sure there is truth in @Norfolk Deer Search and @wildfowler.250 and @Ratel but at worst I'll be wasting my time and my money and at the end I may well agree and say, yes they were right. But I may end up with a 7mm-08, who knows.

off to bed now as I won't get out stalking in time.

 

[25 Sharps]

Hi,

Reading the thread regarding the 30-06 being to powerful and the associated Good Reason etc has got me wondering and hence not wanting to hijack that thread.

I have been thinking of putting in for a variation for a 7mm-08 but am concerned about my Good Reason. I know there is only one way to find out for sure but thought I would seek some advice 1st.

I currently have the following conditioned for deer.
.243win
6.5x55 SE
.308 Win.

Reasons.
1) I do not want only 1 deer calibre ready at any one time. As things have and do happen so a 2nd back up rifle ready to go is a good to have. Plus the farmer isn't interested if I can't get out as I have a rifle issue.

2) The .243 is used for fox now, albeit in conjunction with another .22CF.

3) 6.5x55 has a thermal scope ( without going into my main reason but an additional factor for having is. in some area's the deer consistently enter / leave the land the last 15 mins or less of legal shooting window) This allows me to confidently take shots in the last knockings when the bucks and does are both in season. Not comfortable using it when Bucks only in case I get the sex wrong. Therefore only used Nov - March.

4) .308win used Bucks only and proper stalking / small woodland as opposed to just high seat/ static. Relatively light weight, 20" barrel. In truth I find the recoil at times not ideal. A wuss, I know but still very effective even with me behind it.

5) Although brought on by myself. I don't currently fulfil reason 1 as 6.5 not used this time of year and .243 set up for longer range fox or the seemingly endless windy conditions so only down to the .308 good to go.


7mm-08 hope to have less recoil and allow for longer high seat work as and when the (fallow) deer are out in the open in big groups at certain times of the year. Plus a back up rifle

Just reasoning ?? or full of -----

thanks

25-45 - Primary condition (small) deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - lighter rifle for carrying
6.5x55 - Primary condition (small) deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - longer range and the 2 rifles back up to each other

.280 - Primary condition Large deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - longer range and high seat (big heavy bugger with 16x scope) though I don't mind carrying it
.308 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition back up large deer rifle
7.5x55 -Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition deer - iron sights

.223 - Primary fox + AOLQ so can and have taken muntjac, secondary condition target with HOACs
.357 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition vermin & AOLQ so can and have taken muntjac with it.

45-70 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition deer rifle - heavy slow bullet in woodland, less likely to deflect off of small twigs etc.

So, as you can see, 3 pure deer rifles, many others that have a deer condition or condition allowing deer, primarily due to establishing good reason for target or fox/ vermin - if I didn't have 2 clubs I think I'd be restricted to 3-4 deer rifles that I could reasonably justify without talking nonsense on moderated and unmoderated or night vision (both are easily used as 'add ons' on the same rifle).

If your 6.5x55 with the thermal was established as good reason for the job that usually goes on in the autumn you did well, because of the time limit on that the official line is it is not considered good reason.

As for your 7-08 depends how helpful, and knowledgeable your FEO / FLD are, .308 and 7-08, not a lot between them in reality, .243 with the thermal on would do foxes and 6.5x55 will do longer range deer if they were being awkward. I would argue 7-08 - longer range deer from more static position, high seat etc. so longer heavier barrel to improve ballistics over your current .380 and lessen felt recoil for a second shot, higher magnification scope. Provided you have ground where you can shoot longer range I doubt they'll argue, just buy a rifle that fits that description!

You could make a more convincing argument if you went .280 / .284 as they are a real step up from .308 ballistically but as you don't like recoil they may not be for you, both are reloading only options too.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

25-45 - Primary condition (small) deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - lighter rifle for carrying
6.5x55 - Primary condition (small) deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - longer range and the 2 rifles back up to each other

.280 - Primary condition Large deer, secondary condition target with HOACs - longer range and high seat (big heavy bugger with 16x scope) though I don't mind carrying it
.308 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition back up large deer rifle
7.5x55 -Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition deer - iron sights

.223 - Primary fox + AOLQ so can and have taken muntjac, secondary condition target with HOACs
.357 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition vermin & AOLQ so can and have taken muntjac with it.

45-70 - Primary condition target with HOACs, secondary condition deer rifle - heavy slow bullet in woodland, less likely to deflect off of small twigs etc.

So, as you can see, 3 pure deer rifles, many others that have a deer condition or condition allowing deer, primarily due to establishing good reason for target or fox/ vermin - if I didn't have 2 clubs I think I'd be restricted to 3-4 deer rifles that I could reasonably justify without talking nonsense on moderated and unmoderated or night vision (both are easily used as 'add ons' on the same rifle).

If your 6.5x55 with the thermal was established as good reason for the job that usually goes on in the autumn you did well, because of the time limit on that the official line is it is not considered good reason.

As for your 7-08 depends how helpful, and knowledgeable your FEO / FLD are, .308 and 7-08, not a lot between them in reality, .243 with the thermal on would do foxes and 6.5x55 will do longer range deer if they were being awkward. I would argue 7-08 - longer range deer from more static position, high seat etc. so longer heavier barrel to improve ballistics over your current .380 and lessen felt recoil for a second shot, higher magnification scope. Provided you have ground where you can shoot longer range I doubt they'll argue, just buy a rifle that fits that description!

You could make a more convincing argument if you went .280 / .284 as they are a real step up from .308 ballistically but as you don't like recoil they may not be for you, both are reloading only options too.

Dress it up as fancy as you like but, all that and you can only shoot 1 at a time.

 

[gixer1]

Dress it up as fancy as you like but, all that and you can only shoot 1 at a time.

At a time maybe, but I often take several rifles to the range on a single occasion to shoot - nothing wrong with that! Remember - it’s not just chasing furry things that firearms are used for!

 

[long_range_rob]

Ok for my penny worth.

Good reason for a 7mm08 is self answering as the calibre is brilliant.

Secondly the adage should be “beware the man with one rifle as he’ll probably put your local gun shop out of business “

 

[cjm1066]

A second rifle that you have confidence in is essential, my old 308 went off (service as required by FC when I was a helper), it took some time to regain confidence.

 

[25 Sharps]

Dress it up as fancy as you like but, all that and you can only shoot 1 at a time.

Right. But different rifles for different situations, I could shoot everything including rats with the .280 but that’s not really reasonable is it?

The .280 destroys muntjac, the 25-45 is perfect for munties and roe, I wouldn’t want to shoot a big fallow buck, red or sika with it over 50-60 yards. In theory .308 would do it all but what do you do if your one .308 has an issue right when you need it with no backup rifle?

As @gixer1 says multiple rifles go to the range. I shoot with one club twice a month and will generally take 4 guns to a session. Bisley for a full day once a month and this will generally be 4-6 guns. Various ranges and disciplines mean various firearms are used.

As I said above, if I didn’t shoot target then I’d have 3, maybe 4 deer rifles. But I do, I enjoy shooting different firearms and I am fortunate to be able to afford several setups, I don’t need to dress it up and I don’t see why anyone would take issue with that. (Other than for arguing for the sake of it).

As for only using one at a time, have you never heard of 3 gun??

And ultimately who doesn’t want a Sunday deer rifle