NABIS do not agree with removing sound moderators from FAC.

[Rake Aboot]

You can buy an air gun moderator freely off ticket that will work with 9mm

 

[Rake Aboot]

No.

But this is...

View attachment 369631

Get yer coat , Yer oot!

 

[GlennUK]

You can buy an air gun moderator freely off ticket that will work with 9mm

Indeed

 

[Dalua]

It's interesting. I still don't think that in law a FAC is needed to buy any moderator - although dealers quite reasonably wish to write them into a FAC 'slot' if they're intended for use on a S1 firearm.

It is clear that you need a slot on your FAC for a moderator that actually is 'an accessory to' a S1 firearm - which I think is why we have mods for our S1 firearms listed on our certificates, to allow us lawful possession on them when they're attached to the firearms.

 

[chriswjx]

It's interesting. I still don't think that in law a FAC is needed to buy any moderator - although dealers quite reasonably wish to write them into a FAC 'slot' if they're intended for use on a S1 firearm.

It is clear that you need a slot on your FAC for a moderator that actually is 'an accessory to' a S1 firearm - which I think is why we have mods for our S1 firearms listed on our certificates, to allow us lawful possession on them when they're attached to the firearms.

Why do you think it is not in law?

57 Interpretation.​

(1) In this Act, the expression “firearm” means—

(a) a lethal barrelled weapon (see subsection (1B));

(b) a prohibited weapon;

(c) a relevant component part in relation to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon (see subsection (1D));

(d) an accessory to a lethal barrelled weapon or a prohibited weapon where the accessory is designed or adapted to diminish the noise or flash caused by firing the weapon;

and so much of section 1 of this Act as excludes any description of firearm from the category of firearms to which that section applies shall be construed as also excluding component parts of, and accessories to, firearms of that description.

^As moderators fall under (d), they are - for all intents and purposes currently considered to be firearms.

 

[Greenmist]

There’s quite a trade in manufacturing and reactivating firearms in backyard workshops, how difficult is it to produce a tube with a thread at one end and a calibre+ hole at the other in comparison

Not very, however fitting it to a semi-auto pistol certainly isn't straight forward, as most will require a new longer barrel to allow the moderator to be fitted

 

[VSS]

Why do you think it is not in law?



^As moderators fall under (d), they are - for all intents and purposes currently considered to be firearms.

The ambiguity lies in whether something can be considered an "accessory" to a firearm when it is not actually attached to it, I believe.
Only when attached does it become an accessory. Maybe.

 

[cjm1066]

Check tube, videos of oil filters being used as sound moderators.

 

[jcalleja91]

Not very, however fitting it to a semi-auto pistol certainly isn't straight forward, as most will require a new longer barrel to allow the moderator to be fitted

The problem I'd imagine is less so then being fitted to firearms firing centerfire rounds.

More so converted firearms firing all sort of modified projectiles.

 

[Greenmist]

The problem I'd imagine is less so then being fitted to firearms firing centerfire rounds.

More so converted firearms firing all sort of modified projectiles.

Not really, look at a standard semi auto pistol, very few models have a barrel that protrudes from the slide, making fitting of a mod difficult if not impossible

 

[andyk]

@Heym SR20 I can’t agree that there isn’t much paperwork caused by having mods ‘on ticket’. You’re correct that there isn’t in the first instance but what about if they require replacement? That requires you to dispose of the old and put in for a 1:1. That may be easy in some forces but where I am a 1:1 currently takes 6 months. That’s seriously impractical. Even if dealt with efficiently, it still takes up FLD time on something of no benefit to public safety.

I do though see why a ‘free for all’ might concern the police. However, requiring that an FAC be shown, with appropriate firearm, as a condition of purchase seems a reasonable compromise that would all but entirely eliminate the administrative burden of swapping a mod.

 

[jcalleja91]

Not really, look at a standard semi auto pistol, very few models have a barrel that protrudes from the slide, making fitting of a mod difficult if not impossible

Yeah I'm agreeing.. not likely to be used with illegally imported firearms...

More likely to be used with workshop converted blank firers or deactivated firearms that fire a whole host of projectiles making the bore size irrelevant.

 

[Liveonce]

possibly sound modes also distort the number of firearms in private possession, i wonder if the HO discount them when publishing such data.

 

[Bowland blades]

There is no point in having a panel who actually don't know WTF they are talking about . A functioning moderator could be a plastic bottle , actually i dont think any of the criminal drug gangs actually use moderators? While they certainly do have pistols that have never been on licence in the Uk . likewise what about all the Cocaine that comes in ? If we cannot stop that what chance is there with metal tubes !
Indeed i guess the Criminals quite favour a load bang or two to scare their victims the way they shoot

 

[VSS]

possibly sound modes also distort the number of firearms in private possession, i wonder if the HO discount them when publishing such data.

No "possibly" about it. Taking mods off ticket would, in one fell swoop, more-or-less halve the number of section 1 firearms in private ownership in the UK, for statistical purposes. Win-win for all of us, I'd say!

 

[jcalleja91]

No "possibly" about it. Taking mods off ticket would, in one fell swoop, more-or-less halve the number of section 1 firearms in private ownership in the UK, for statistical purposes. Win-win for all of us, I'd say!

I can see the Labour government were about to get jumping on that... we've halved gun ownership through improved processes

 

[kripton]

I can understand why law enforcement authorities may be concerned at the deregulation of moderators.

Any gun is very noisy without a moderator/ silencer and anybody up to no good will know that as soon as the gun is fired everybody in the area will be alerted. Fire it a few times and every police officer will be fast approaching.

By contrast adding a moderator/ silencer you can use the gun and then just walk away undetected. It was for this very reason why silencers were developed for use by the SOE and others doing clandestine work in occupied Europe and why the other side treated them as spies and assassins and executed them accordingly.

A moderator in the hands of a criminal turns a noisy weapon into a silenced one, and it was for this reason that they are licensed and controlled.

At present the authorisation to acquire a moderator is pretty much granted alongside that of a rifle and it is really no additional paperwork.

Many will argue that a mod is just a piece of tube with some threading. It is. But then so is a barrel, and a rifle itself is just a piece of tube with a large interrupted thread (ie the bolt) and a few springs and a bit of wood.

I don't often disagree with Heym SR20 but surely, unless subsonic rounds are used, any rifle/handgun when fired, still emits the sonic bang - i.e. it is not silenced apart from the noise of the blast.

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

What a shock….

 

[tozzybum]

I wonder if this " silencer " is on ticket .I get the feeling if used for crime it will meet all their criteria for that waffle they published .

 

[Heym SR20]

I don't often disagree with Heym SR20 but surely, unless subsonic rounds are used, any rifle/handgun when fired, still emits the sonic bang - i.e. it is not silenced apart from the noise of the blast.

Correct, but depending on calibre, cartridge and moderator even a supersonic rifle can be a lot quieter with a moderator- ie the sort of noise level that doesn’t wake up the neighbours at 2am in the morning.