Natural England Pilot Sussex Woods Landscape Deer Management Initiative

[big ears]

I think this is a big concern for landowners who have only been persuaded to cull because it will form part of a well-planned and monitored programme. In the situation of this thread, the participation of these landowners is crucial. But for most, paddling their own canoe is not going to be an option. So, I think this is an opportunity for stalkers to create a register to be called upon.

But each of us needs to decide whether we are motivated primarily by deer population management or whether we use deer stalking to support our passion for rifles.

Farmers and landowners think if one thing….money.
Make deer management part of ELMS and you have their ears. Make it a criminal offence not to manage the deer on their land and now you have their full attention.
Make it the landowners responsibility to control the deer then the problem will be sorted.
It doesn’t need the BDS/BASC just the minister for agriculture.

 

[User00053]

Farmers and landowners think if one thing….money.
Make deer management part of ELMS and you have their ears. Make it a criminal offence not to manage the deer on their land and now you have their full attention.
Make it the landowners responsibility to control the deer then the problem will be sorted.
It doesn’t need the BDS/BASC just the minister for agriculture.

Nail on head imo. Deer a cash crop with a revenue by folks who will pay good money and not in all’s interest to have reduced numbers until fairly recent times and have become a pest in some areas and now identified as such.

 

[bottletopbill]

Simple answer land owners being made to control there deer numbers. No safe areas or will this be for the rich shooting more days.

 

[User00053]

Don’t think the reality of a proper solution would appeal to many sounds more industrial methods needed for a while, more a blood, guts and gore with veins in your teeth carry on to the horror of many.

 

[JeffreyL]

Nail on head imo. Deer a cash crop with a revenue by folks who will pay good money and not in all’s interest to have reduced numbers until fairly recent times and have become a pest in some areas and now identified as such.

Farmers and landowners think if one thing….money.
Make deer management part of ELMS and you have their ears. Make it a criminal offence not to manage the deer on their land and now you have their full attention.
Make it the landowners responsibility to control the deer then the problem will be sorted.
It doesn’t need the BDS/BASC just the minister for agriculture.

This would require legislation, some form of which is probably not too far away. In the meantime any recreational stalker, deer’manager’ syndicate, stalking agency, chef or anyone else involved in culling deer with no incentive to reduce numbers take notice of what is happening and roll up your sleeves.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lets get ready to carry this out plenty of volunteers are waiting on land that as no other shooters on.
The safe places as the deer know and we cant go on as they want the deer to roam on there land. This the problem .

 

[JTO]

Lets get ready to carry this out plenty of volunteers are waiting on land that as no other shooters on.
The safe places as the deer know and we cant go on as they want the deer to roam on there land. This the problem .

It's been said before:- Deer management for trophies/punters is different to deer management for crop protection.

 

[bottletopbill]

Should be all down to the damage they do to our woodlands and crops.
We must remember those with stalking know what as to be done it is not all about the size of the antlers if they have got great deer on there land then why not.
It is the large estates and farms that do not want the deer controlled that needs the action.

Thought there was some requirement that land owners had to control pest. I may be wrong

 

[User00053]

no doubt it’s a job of work and to be treated as such with the resources needed to make a impact would be surprised if plans were not in place were needed.

 

[Heym SR20]

One day we might learn from our European neighbours whereby multiple neighbouring landholdings, hunting areas will organise large shoots whereby you have 20 perhaps 30 rifles dotted over a good area. You then have teams of beaters who quietly stir up all the bits of cover.

Such hunts happen once or perhaps twice a year and you can achieve a heavy cull in a short space of time. And probably with much less stress than constantly chasing them with lamps etc.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lets hope those making the decisions are reading SD comments and pass out the control.

 

[bottletopbill]

devon deer stalker I agree with you

 

[sikamalc]

Fallow have certainly become a problem species. One area off the A12 near the M25 has a staggering amount on the local fields. But the problem really has become an issue in West and East Sussex.
Farmers are having a tough time, and any extra income is welcomed. But not by all. Small parcels of land that Fallow are safe on are always an issue for many reasons. Its not an easy solution.
However I agree that where there is a serious problem with numbers of Fallow more should be done to control numbers. Night licences are now common place in southern England, where once it was a rarity.

 

[bottletopbill]

Lots of large estates around Wadhurst love bambi on there land and do not want them shot

 

[Apthorpe]

Farmers and landowners think if one thing….money.

Really? If they only thought of money they'd have invested their money in something which generates better financial returns. The evidence is pretty clear that people farm or own land for different reasons.

Make deer management part of ELMS and you have their ears. Make it a criminal offence not to manage the deer on their land and now you have their full attention.

To the extent that legislation makes any undesirable thing go away, especially where there is little credible prospect of enforcement.

Make it the landowners responsibility to control the deer then the problem will be sorted.

That approach doesn't work for plant species and is even more unlikely to work with animal species.

It doesn’t need the BDS/BASC just the minister for agriculture.

Personally, I think we need to get away from the idea that centralised planning of wildlife is desirable or effective. There is already ample evidence that central planning tends to fail and that our (UK) "conservationist establishment" is of low calibre in terms of results and heavily politically infiltrated. This is a recipe for poor outcomes.

To the extent that our current approaches fail, then looking at the problem with an open mind seems desirable and I'm not instinctively in favour of measures like out of season shooting (of females) or night shooting.
Nor of measures which presume that a group of persons with little or no knowledge should be able to exert legal control over the people who are likely to be more knowledgeable about the requirements of their land. State intervention does not tend to bring the benefits it intends, so it is crucial to consider what the real outcome is likely to be.

The past ministers of agriculture have been obviously career politicians, but with backgrounds that include fireman, social worker, trade unionists, production engineer, barristers, metallurgy, advertising, political analysts, chemist and banker. The most popular background has been trade unionist. I do not comprehend how anyone thinks that people like this, who have very short tenures in the job, are qualified to even have an opinion. Luckily we have the Civil Service and the Permanent Secretaries leading that department have had zero relevant experience, knowledge or expertise - in most cases of anything outside the Civil service at all.

 

[Jagare]

I know that part of the world well . Lived in West Ashling for twenty five years and stalked around Midhurst for even longer. Its about time a serious cull was undertaken on the fallow: When I'm back in the UK hunting its amazing to see the number of fallow that are about. I left England twenty years ago and the fallow popultion has grown out of hand since . Best get a cull underway before I have to come back and show how its done.

 

[bottletopbill]

The only problem is land owners all shooting would managed if we were allowed access
As i said before i heard a rumour that land owners have to control pest.. hope i am right does any one know if this is true.

 

[User00053]

I know that part of the world well . Lived in West Ashling for twenty five years and stalked around Midhurst for even longer. Its about time a serious cull was undertaken on the fallow: When I'm back in the UK hunting its amazing to see the number of fallow that are about. I left England twenty years ago and the fallow popultion has grown out of hand since . Best get a cull underway before I have to come back and show how its done.

Plenty of boys in Scotland dying to meet them just need some ££££.

 

[Tim.243]

Should be all down to the damage they do to our woodlands and crops.
We must remember those with stalking know what as to be done it is not all about the size of the antlers if they have got great deer on there land then why not.
It is the large estates and farms that do not want the deer controlled that needs the action.

Thought there was some requirement that land owners had to control pest. I may be wrong

Have you seen Fallow first hand filling up on wheat/barley/beans, then proceed to lay down and digest what they have eaten...

 

[Jagare]

Plenty of boys in Scotland dying to meet them just need some ££££.

I remember back many years when there was articles in the papers about the number of deer in Scotland. There were southern towny stalkers who said, If only they would let us stalk/ cull the deer, there would be no deer problem. Problem was that most of them would get lost in a three acre Sussex wood let alone the wilds of Scotland.
There are a few down south who are culling large numbers of deer and plenty of wonnabes shooting a small number every year. The wannabes are never going to get the cull that is needed sorted while they are worrying about the cost of diesel, game dealer prices or their family comittments have not allined with the stars etc.