Natural Environment Bill Guest Stalking

[DMc88]

A quick Google

I would be careful if that is an AI generated response. too much feeds into it not just the actual Bill that now awaits final sign off. AI summaries are notoriously inaccurate. I reviewed the Bill as a whole and there was no mention of minimum qualifications being made a standard. excluding what has been in place for many years regarding OOS, NS work and the fit and competent register, Everyday deer stalking seems to be carry on as before.

 

[Rake Aboot]

A quick Google

Why on earth would anyone post AI slop ?
Are you saying that’s the source of your info ?

Because reading the bill , it says nothing of the sort !

This AI pish needs outlawed

 

[Bavarianbrit]

My experience in Germany, which does I think vary depending state you are in, is that a visitors Jagdschein (hunting license) you need to possess the equivalent in your own country. I have used my firearm certificate and DSC1 and 2. With a visitors Jagshein you are then allowed to be on a highseat or a driven hunt stand on your own.

If you don’t possess such things, you can still but you have to be the instruction of somebody with a full Jagdschein who is there as your “loader” but whose real job is to supervise and make sure that you are safe.

If you don’t possess such things, you can still but you have to be the instruction of somebody with a full Jagdschein who is there as your “loader” but whose real job is to supervise and make sure that you are safe.
Not sure that is correct, there are different ways to get a tagesjagdschein which is good for max 14 days ie an American/Canadian will usually not have proof of training but they do get a tagesjagdschein issued, a lot is I think at the discretion of the local amt.

 

[Freeforester]

At present venison dealers checks would be conducted by Police Scotland, often in conjunction with NatureScot and local authority food safety officers.

Sorry - I meant about the lone aspiring visiting sportsman, would their qualifications from their own country affording them a hunting licence not be equivalent to dsc1 or fit and competent, and who checks this and/or whether they are accompanied on the hill or in the woods?

 

[Rake Aboot]

Sorry - I meant about the lone aspiring visiting sportsman, would their qualifications from their own country affording them a hunting licence not be equivalent to dsc1 or fit and competent, and who checks this and/or whether they are accompanied on the hill or in the woods?

Why would they need to be accompanied? Or have an equivalent qualification?

 

[Heym SR20]

If you don’t possess such things, you can still but you have to be the instruction of somebody with a full Jagdschein who is there as your “loader” but whose real job is to supervise and make sure that you are safe.
Not sure that is correct, there are different ways to get a tagesjagdschein which is good for max 14 days ie an American/Canadian will usually not have proof of training but they do get a tagesjagdschein issued, a lot is I think at the discretion of the local amt.

As I said - does vary hugely, and recounting what I have experienced in North Rhine Westphalia.

 

[Poh]

I’m against this and always have been. Your fitness to own a firearm is decided when you are issued an fac.

The rest is nonsense. It’s pest control so the same humane issues apply to rabbits , birds etc etc. Fancy having to be on a register to shoot squirrels?

You make a good point, but as you say "your fitness to OWN a firearm is decided", not necessarily USE. I have seen, with my own eyes, "experienced" firearms owners/users take dodgy shots that I would never take. In my opinion, anyone using a deer legal calibre, and lets face it these have the potential to be highly dangerous tools, should have some training in their, safe and ethical, use OR be supervised by someone who has. How many examples could we think of where tradesmen have to have provable qualifications to use certain tools, or carry out certain tasks, because if they do it wrong they endanger other people or property? We have had it good for a long time, but now we are in the spotlight, we need to change before those with little understanding of our world make us change. Maybe, considering all that's happening politically, we're already too late.

 

[@theroedeerguy]

Sorry - I meant about the lone aspiring visiting sportsman, would their qualifications from their own country affording them a hunting licence not be equivalent to dsc1 or fit and competent, and who checks this and/or whether they are accompanied on the hill or in the woods?

In terms of validating qualifications as to suitability for being on the fit & competent register, this is the remit of NatureScot who oversees F&C.

In terms of breaches of any legislation that is enacted, just like breaches of the existing Deer (Scotland)Act 1996, this would fall into the realms of wildlife criminality for which Police Scotland are the lead agency.

Spot checks would only likely occur following reports from the public much like at the moment there’s not spot checks on practitioners shooting under night licence other than if there’s a reported concern that poaching or shooting without the required licence is taking place.

 

[Rake Aboot]

You make a good point, but as you say "your fitness to OWN a firearm is decided", not necessarily USE. I have seen, with my own eyes, "experienced" firearms owners/users take dodgy shots that I would never take. In my opinion, anyone using a deer legal calibre, and lets face it these have the potential to be highly dangerous tools, should have some training in their, safe and ethical, use OR be supervised by someone who has. How many examples could we think of where tradesmen have to have provable qualifications to use certain tools, or carry out certain tasks, because if they do it wrong they endanger other people or property? We have had it good for a long time, but now we are in the spotlight, we need to change before those with little understanding of our world make us change. Maybe, considering all that's happening politically, we're already too late.

That’s a moot point . Your Fitness to own a firearm is very much the same as your fitness to use a firearm and decided at the issue of your FAC.

What you do afterwards is another thing but your fitness to use has been decided by allowing you to own.

 

[Poh]

That’s a moot point . Your Fitness to own a firearm is very much the same as your fitness to use a firearm and decided at the issue of your FAC.

What you do afterwards is another thing but your fitness to use has been decided by allowing you to own.

And therein lies the problem. The decision to grant a FAC is based on a subjective view of the evidence you provide, the issuing officer has no idea of how you will react to external stimuli whilst handling a firearm.

 

[Rake Aboot]

And therein lies the problem. The decision to grant a FAC is based on a subjective view of the evidence you provide, the issuing officer has no idea of how you will react to external stimuli whilst handling a firearm.

Why is that problem ?

Would you prefer more rods for your back ?

And it’s the evidence you and your referees and your doctor and the police provide .

 

[Poh]

Why is that problem ?

Would you prefer more rods for your back ?

And it’s the evidence you and your referees and your doctor and the police provide .

Because nobody can say how they will react once they have an animal in the scope. I am not saying everyone should complete DSC1 & 2, but does it make sense to have people, with no evidence they are practically competent, roaming the hills, alone, with a high power rifle?
There are many aspects of our lives where we have to prove competence when we could endanger other people or ourselves, driving tests, gas safe, Part P etc. Why not stalking?

 

[Mike1979]

Because nobody can say how they will react once they have an animal in the scope. I am not saying everyone should complete DSC1 & 2, but does it make sense to have people, with no evidence they are practically competent, roaming the hills, alone, with a high power rifle?
There are many aspects of our lives where we have to prove competence when we could endanger other people or ourselves, driving tests, gas safe, Part P etc. Why not stalking?

Look at how many people are killed every year on the road and yet you use a driving test as example of competency? I think there are enough restrictions on UK shooters without adding any more. Should we expect people to have to display a competency test when buying a kitchen knife in Tesco and whats to stop that person stabbing someone in an unpredictable situation? Just a different perspective

 

[Poh]

Look at how many people are killed every year on the road and yet you use a driving test as example of competency? I think there are enough restrictions on UK shooters without adding any more. Should we expect people to have to display a competency test when buying a kitchen knife in Tesco and whats to stop that person stabbing someone in an unpredictable situation? Just a different perspective

Point noted. I am not advocating that we should add restrictions, I am merely pointing out that it is coming. We have witnessed legislation enforced in so many arenas, we have seen successive governments ignore factual evidence in favour of the popular vote. This legislation will come, maybe not tomorrow, but it will come and those that are not preparing themselves for it will get the shitty end of the stick. In my opinion.

 

[Mike1979]

Point noted. I am not advocating that we should add restrictions, I am merely pointing out that it is coming. We have witnessed legislation enforced in so many arenas, we have seen successive governments ignore factual evidence in favour of the popular vote. This legislation will come, maybe not tomorrow, but it will come and those that are not preparing themselves for it will get the shitty end of the stick. In my opinion.

I don't disagree that we will be forced down the route...but I don't like being forced to do anything

 

[Poh]

I don't disagree that we will be forced down the route...but I don't like being forced to do anything

None of us do, apart from a few weird deviants, but we can't bury our heads in the sand. We can scream and shout as much as we like (and we should scream and shout), but our our voices, though they outnumber those opposed to us, are seldom heard. So we must prepare, we must be ready, so when they say you need to do this to continue we can say "Yep, done that, now f##k off and bother someone else".

 

[Rake Aboot]

Because nobody can say how they will react once they have an animal in the scope. I am not saying everyone should complete DSC1 & 2, but does it make sense to have people, with no evidence they are practically competent, roaming the hills, alone, with a high power rifle?
There are many aspects of our lives where we have to prove competence when we could endanger other people or ourselves, driving tests, gas safe, Part P etc. Why not stalking?

No different to fox shooting then

Mandatory training and qualifications are not on the horizon yet as they are vehemently opposed

Probably best keep it that way rather than capitulating cause you see no point

 

[vitalspark]

At least the original post made me get the finger out and sign onto the fit and competent register. That's 500 acres of common grazing I can now access.

 

[David Barker]

The Bill has decided there will be a need for competence how that looks is up to the ones w3ho do not pay for anything. This in its self is not a good situation. Donald Fraser (NS) Jamie hammed (NS) and co w3ill be deciding how the National deer plan looks and to what standard new prospective deer stalks need to reach. Looks like the ones w3e provide every for will close deer stalking to the young. The average age at the moment is 57 and rising we wounder why when its costs thousands to get in to our passion. Time to step back and let the pros do it and bankrupt the country lol.

 

[Point17]

At least the original post made me get the finger out and sign onto the fit and competent register. That's 500 acres of common grazing I can now access.

Now tell them about a common grazing committee that will not allow this to happen because they are all vegan!!!