Yeh - my trigger control goes for a burton off hand - I know I'm snatching the trigger a bit
Doesn't take much to send the round off course
Doesn't take much to send the round off course
Need for higher standards of marksmanship?
- Thread starter User00040
- Start date
Thinking about it, I get most of my off-hand practice (other than airgun) during club underlever competitions. These pistol-calibre carbines are shot with unjacketed bullets between 10 and 100yds, nearly always off-hand, and sometimes from the weak shoulder. Often also under pressure of time, and including a reload.
This is cheap and a good deal of fun, as well as being useful!
This is cheap and a good deal of fun, as well as being useful!
Anyone failing the shooting test, either on L1 or for the FC ... is I reckon most likely suffering white coat syndrome, another reason some people turning up for another less publicised shooting test and subsequently failing miserably, is to fail to take note of the instructions on zeroing.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
What is very noticeable from photos of game taken from hunts around the world (especially in Africa) and after reading the hunters tale detail " of shot back a little" ...equates to gut shot or shot through the flanks!
Why in the **** are so many side on shots like that?
I reckon they just go for the big middle bit
pull on the trigger
or both of the above with eyes shut
I see blokes that say they can shoot but in reality many fail under pressure of a live target.
Why in the **** are so many side on shots like that?
I reckon they just go for the big middle bit
pull on the trigger
or both of the above with eyes shut
I see blokes that say they can shoot but in reality many fail under pressure of a live target.
Even if you get good it's still possible to regress. I went through a rather bad patch a couple of years ago.
Then 1 year ago my gamedealer stopped taking body shot deer.
After some practice I realised I had to unlearn a lot of my marksmanship.
Out went straight comb stocks, heavier bullets, low mounted scopes and most especially speed anf good enough range estimates ie all I had learned as conducive to good field shooting.
In came a 12lb 243 with big scope with clicks, light bullet, quad sticks, range finder and 400 rounds of deliberate positional practice, plus 200 rounds competition.
I now shoot pretty well. It's a completely different mindset. People might decry it as sniping (I did once) but it is a skill just different.
Then 1 year ago my gamedealer stopped taking body shot deer.
After some practice I realised I had to unlearn a lot of my marksmanship.
Out went straight comb stocks, heavier bullets, low mounted scopes and most especially speed anf good enough range estimates ie all I had learned as conducive to good field shooting.
In came a 12lb 243 with big scope with clicks, light bullet, quad sticks, range finder and 400 rounds of deliberate positional practice, plus 200 rounds competition.
I now shoot pretty well. It's a completely different mindset. People might decry it as sniping (I did once) but it is a skill just different.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Not everyone in your area will have put in the amount of care and effort that you have in order to adapt to that gamedealer's policy. I think we can safely say that he has caused a great deal of suffering to deer by requiring stalkers to prioritise meat damage over the best and most humane shot for the circumstances.
Am of course not criticising you personally, but dealers like that are irresponsible and do not deserve our venison.
Kind regards,
Carl
Then a rebarrel? Sorry, couldn’t resist, Steve.
I will see what I can do. Not in a position to be near my rifles until the weekend. The THLR.NO videos on youtube and I think hes on here as 'Norway' has a good collection of videos. I personally do not think most can cope with technique of rear bag for animals but much of his technique - and getting the shooter to think about it - is good.
@mchughcb I wont be making videos. I have nowhere near enough free time and zero equipment apart from a mobile phone, with a cullplan to get on with. Prone at 100 with 308 without sticks or bipod, but use of a sling... iron sights and no optics...consistently under 1MOA (1inch). Its called Target Rifle.
Yes, I've seen it on level 1 courses I've taken and on those I've assessed and I've felt it on the FC and Woodland Trust skills tests I've taken. But that same adrenaline can kick in for the occasional stalker, so it's probably no bad thing. There is also a poor level of general muzzle awareness on display, so replicating it all on a range then becomes habit.
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
@308tikka That is really unfortunate that you don't have enough time to show a video of how you make the easy offhand shots as 100m into a 4" circle. If I don't have my camera stuck to my ear muffs then I get somebody else to film either with my other camera or my Samsung S7.
I think anybody that can shoot offhand with a hunting rifle ie 308 and bigger at 100m into a 4" circle easily would be one of the best rifle shots I've ever seen and I'd be glad to discuss their technique with them. However I realise you are a very busy person so maybe when you have time you could ask somebody to film you and you send me a PM and we work something out.
Just something like this with your mate filming on their mobile phone would be great. Even 5 consecutive shots offhand at 100m into a 4" circle would be outstanding.
I think anybody that can shoot offhand with a hunting rifle ie 308 and bigger at 100m into a 4" circle easily would be one of the best rifle shots I've ever seen and I'd be glad to discuss their technique with them. However I realise you are a very busy person so maybe when you have time you could ask somebody to film you and you send me a PM and we work something out.
Just something like this with your mate filming on their mobile phone would be great. Even 5 consecutive shots offhand at 100m into a 4" circle would be outstanding.
Rutland lad
Well-Known Member
I will step in now -
Trigger control is vital when using a rifle. How many people have been taught proper trigger control ?
Cheek weld on stock also matters. I regularly see people take a shot and IMMEDIATELY lift their head off the stock to see the fall of shot or reaction from the animal.
Both of these simple things can make a massive difference to anyone's accuracy.
I firmly believe the basic principles of marksmanship are not taught to enough people and in enough depth who have FAC and will probably never be taught properly as there's not the ranges available to do it.
Also, like driving and motorcycling, people who have a licence think they already know it all and are reluctant to pay to be advised on how they can improve.
Similar mindset with shooting.
Trigger control is vital when using a rifle. How many people have been taught proper trigger control ?
Cheek weld on stock also matters. I regularly see people take a shot and IMMEDIATELY lift their head off the stock to see the fall of shot or reaction from the animal.
Both of these simple things can make a massive difference to anyone's accuracy.
I firmly believe the basic principles of marksmanship are not taught to enough people and in enough depth who have FAC and will probably never be taught properly as there's not the ranges available to do it.
Also, like driving and motorcycling, people who have a licence think they already know it all and are reluctant to pay to be advised on how they can improve.
Similar mindset with shooting.
I wholeheartedly agree with the first statement and would encourage people to heed the second, when i got my first couple of centre fires a year into my first FAC I joined a club as I wanted somewhere to practice, shooting wise one of the best things I've done as I have learned a lot about marksmanship and reloading from the guys at the club, (even if they are a bunch of p*ss taking w*nkers). The quarterly McQueens comp we do is also very good training if you ever need to make a fast follow up shot which we all do at some point!
people who fail that test, and there's a lot, really shouldn't be shooting!!
No need to adjust zero either IMO, my .223 is zeroed at 200 yards which means at say, 77 yards, I am 0.8" high, well within the required target! If I was zeroed at 100 the difference would only be about 0.1"
You forgot the bondage jacket and funny hat. . . . .
Oracle
Well-Known Member
Interested to know what percentage of people fail the test
Where I lived a lot of professional hunters relied on their ability to put in fast, freehand, killing shot under a great deal of pressure, what is more they could manage it. Generally getting your client killed was generally a big no no! The problem isn't five shots freehand into the target but the first and second. On a live target after that is a bit late.
David.
For me shooting sticks are a big no, for me they are just too slow and too loud. Anything up to 100m I will just shoot off the shoulder if no other rest is available. Over ~100m I prefer off a bipod or off the rucksack or just lean against a tree or fencepost. The ability to be in place fast and get a shot off fast is a huge bonus, many play around just too long. I have three different bipods in the car, when I head off I choose the one most likely to be useful in the terrain. Sometimes use the binos as rear rest they can be turned three ways and have three heights. (lenses are always scratched)
I am very lucky to be able to off-hand practice from the office door with a 22. I can also use the same stock on my 22 than on my hunting rifles. Same LOP etc which helps a lot. Another issue is rifle set-up, most hunting rifles I can see right away that they will not shoot consistently from differing positions or need very good skills to be able to shoot them well. I have rifles that are very easy to shoot well.
edi
I am very lucky to be able to off-hand practice from the office door with a 22. I can also use the same stock on my 22 than on my hunting rifles. Same LOP etc which helps a lot. Another issue is rifle set-up, most hunting rifles I can see right away that they will not shoot consistently from differing positions or need very good skills to be able to shoot them well. I have rifles that are very easy to shoot well.
edi
When I lived in Swtizerland there ranges everywhere - litterally. Even in the middle of Zurich next to my office there was a 300m range, a 50m smallbore range a pistol range. I am not aware of any ranges over 300m though. Everyone has to take an annual shooting test for the military.
In East Anglia we are lucky that the BDS uses the range on the Euston estate. We can shoot from 25 - 300m from any position. It is a privately owned range so doesn't require a Shooter Certification Card which military ranges do. I have a number of other ranges close to where I live that provide shooting generally from ranges of 25 - 100 yards. Several being indoor. The problem I have is finding the time to go and use them!
In East Anglia we are lucky that the BDS uses the range on the Euston estate. We can shoot from 25 - 300m from any position. It is a privately owned range so doesn't require a Shooter Certification Card which military ranges do. I have a number of other ranges close to where I live that provide shooting generally from ranges of 25 - 100 yards. Several being indoor. The problem I have is finding the time to go and use them!
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
Same matey!
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