New Forest Negligent Discharge

[Mungo]

Hmmm! Worrying and I really do not see the point - is “easing” really required? I have never done it and in 50 years have never had a “lazy” spring misfire. Also begs the question - if the pin is “resting on or in close proximity to the primer” then if the rifle is jarred/dropped will this set the round off? I would need a lot of convincing that this practice is other than a disaster just waiting to happen.

Used to be very common.

The idea was that you had a round chambered, but the rifle wasn’t ‘cocked’, so therefore supposedly safe. It then meant you could crawl in close and make ready nearly silently by simply raising and lowering the bolt handle.

I’ve had older stalkers swear blind it was safe.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Used to be very common.

The idea was that you had a round chambered, but the rifle wasn’t ‘cocked’, so therefore supposedly safe. It then meant you could crawl in close and make ready nearly silently by simply raising and lowering the bolt handle.

I’ve had older stalkers swear blind it was safe.

Just thinking this through a bit more - to ease the bolt - does this mean holding the trigger back and gently closing the open bolt or what is the process, plz?

 

[JockStalk]

<shudder>
There are old stalkers and there are bold stalkers, but few old and bold stalkers.

 

[Mungo]

Just thinking this through a bit more - to ease the bolt - does this mean holding the trigger back and gently closing the open bolt or what is the process, plz?

Exactly that.

Work the bolt as normal to chamber a round, but keeping finger on trigger, holding it back.

Try it with an empty case. It does work.

 

[User00025]

Exactly that.

Work the bolt as normal to chamber a round, but keeping finger on trigger, holding it back.

Try it with an empty case. It does work.

And that is exactly how the farmworker I saw killed as a 14 year old.died. The youth tried that one but got it wrong, bolt forward holding trigger back, finger off trigger, bolt down, touched trigger. Bang Dead.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Yep - going back many years you could do it with a cz 22 just by twisting the bolt in your hands or as you do describe, thanks but doing it in the rifle with a live round chambered??? Why would you??

 

[Oracle]

Exactly that.

Work the bolt as normal to chamber a round, but keeping finger on trigger, holding it back.

Try it with an empty case. It does work.

Try it with a de-primed case and a small dab of Blu Tac (similar products are available) flush in the primer pocket. "Ease Springs" on the chambered "round". Eject the case and check if their is an indentation on the "primer"

 

[Foxyboy43]

Try it with a de-primed case and a small dab of Blu Tac (similar products are available) flush in the primer pocket. "Ease Springs" on the chambered "round". Eject the case and check if their is an indentation on the "primer"

Hmmm. I think the earlier reply re doing it with the muzzle in your mouth might be a (sudden) cure! The spring on a firing pin has one use only and that is to set off a live round when the shooter intentionally pulls the trigger - the very idea of said firing pin possibly coming into contact with a live round without the shooter so doing is just beyond crazy.

 

[Mungo]

Yep - going back many years you could do it with a cz 22 just by twisting the bolt in your hands or as you do describe, thanks but doing it in the rifle with a live round chambered??? Why would you??

I certainly wouldn’t do it - but as I say, many did, and were perfectly comfortable with it.

And I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an ND as a result, surprisingly.

 

[Alantoo]

Try it with a de-primed case and a small dab of Blu Tac (similar products are available) flush in the primer pocket. "Ease Springs" on the chambered "round". Eject the case and check if their is an indentation on the "primer"

You could then follow through and dap the barrel onto a wood block to simulate catching the forend on a gate post to see if the pin is able to dimp the Blu Tac with momentum and jar.

Alan

 

[Woodsmoke]

A firing pin resting on a primer is a death just waiting for a victim!

CZ452 bolt below. I know it's slightly different to a centrefire, but the principle is exactly the same.

Cocked



Decocked



Jar the rifle in that condition and it will fire. Terrifying to think of anyone carrying a rifle in that state and declaring themselves 'safe'

 

[Mungo]

A firing pin resting on a primer is a death just waiting for a victim!

CZ452 bolt below. I know it's slightly different to a centrefire, but the principle is exactly the same.

Cocked

View attachment 203805

Decocked

View attachment 203806

Jar the rifle in that condition and it will fire. Terrifying to think of anyone carrying a rifle in that state and declaring themselves 'safe'

So the question is really how hard you need to jar the rifle to set it off in that state...

Having recently had a problem with misfires due to light primer strikes, I wonder if you actually need quite a bit more force than you’d usually get from everyday bumps.

Not that I am for a moment suggesting it’s an even remotely sensible thing to do! But people did it, and seem to have generally survived.

 

[NigelM]

A firing pin resting on a primer is a death just waiting for a victim!

CZ452 bolt below. I know it's slightly different to a centrefire, but the principle is exactly the same.

Cocked

View attachment 203805

Decocked

View attachment 203806

Jar the rifle in that condition and it will fire. Terrifying to think of anyone carrying a rifle in that state and declaring themselves 'safe'

I can see which camp you sit in on the question of gun cleaning

 

[takbok]

So the question is really how hard you need to jar the rifle to set it off in that state...

Having recently had a problem with misfires due to light primer strikes, I wonder if you actually need quite a bit more force than you’d usually get from everyday bumps.

Not that I am for a moment suggesting it’s an even remotely sensible thing to do! But people did it, and seem to have generally survived.

I've read of a hunter killed by his own rifle carried with a round up the spout and decocked. He took a tumble on a rocky hillside, dropping the rifle. It was theorised that the cocking piece hit a rock causing rifle to fire.

 

[Sharpie]

Hmmm! Worrying and I really do not see the point - is “easing” really required? I have never done it and in 50 years have never had a “lazy” spring misfire. Also begs the question - if the pin is “resting on or in close proximity to the primer” then if the rifle is jarred/dropped will this set the round off? I would need a lot of convincing that this practice is other than a disaster just waiting to happen.

It used to be quite the thing when using Lee Enfields, which cock on closing, and have a large cocking piece sticking out of the back with finger grips. The idea was to carry the rifle with one up the spout but the firing pin in the half-cock position. No firing pin protrusion, and even if the half cock somehow slipped off, hopefully insufficient force to fire the round (firing pin spring tension quite low). When ready to take the shot simply pull back the cocking piece to arm the rifle and fully tension the firing spring.

Also made the misfire drill much safer. No need to open the bolt, just re cock and see if it goes bang the second time. If still no bang, only then cautiously open the bolt and gingerly remove the dud.

Sometimes I think that not all progress has been for the better. And very fond of my No4 MkII.

 

[Woodsmoke]

gun cleaning

What is this of which you speak?

 

[Heym SR20]

1st Rule of Safety - All Guns are Always Loaded

2nd Rule - never point a gun at something you don’t wish to destroy

Simples

And human nature is very prone to failure and forgetfulness, especially at times of stress and tiredness.

Thats why the military have drills. They are designed to work and keep things safe even when very tired and stressed.

Clearing the rifle by firing into a safe spot - if there is something in the chamber it goes bang, gives you a bloody scare, but much better than having it go off in the car.

Light triggers and hunting rifles are a modern fad. Recipe for disaster. A rifle should not go off if you bounce it on the floor, bang the stock etc. With the safety in the fire position.

And I really do not like the tendency for UK stalkers to load rifle as soon as they get on their ground. I disagree with the teaching of DSC1 and 2 on this. A rifle should only be loaded when a shot is imminent - yes it may mean fewer deer on the ground but a loaded rifle on your shoulder is not under control. By all means load when you are closing in the last bit of a stalk, or when you expect something to jump out in front of you. But not loaded on your shoulder and then stomp across fields to get to a likely spot where a shot will present itself.

 

[Oracle]

I certainly wouldn’t do it - but as I say, many did, and were perfectly comfortable with it.

And I don’t think I’ve ever heard of an ND as a result, surprisingly.

The practice of carrying a rifle having "eased springs" on a chambered round, and the inherent dangers therein, is a multiple choice question that is contained within the DSC1 question bank and is referred to in DSC1 manuals, (or the ones I have seen). This alone would suggest that, at one time, it was common or accepted practice to do so. Like Mungo never heard of an ND or injury as a result of doing so.

 

[Kjf]

As has been said many ,many, many , times in this thread

If the pointy end isn't I pointing in a safe direction or at a beast with a safe backstop ,wether it's loaded or not

Should be treated as its live, until proven otherwise , even then the holder should check, check, check , check...........again / muzzle awareness is key, no matter what you are doing with the firearm whilst holding it

Kjf

 

[Heym SR20]

And if anybody questions whether or not a rifle will fire on a decocked bolt. Load up a case with a primer. Decock the bolt, then give it a good bounce on the butt pad. If it has not gone off, then whack the stricker with a bit of wood.

I have seen rifles go off in a landrover in the above African decock carry. It was an experienced former Grey Scout, when I suggested not a safe he told i was talking shite (polite translation) Ten minutes later it went off in his hand as went over a bump. Muzzle was pointing upwards. I was driving, he was in passenger seat.

And I have two NDs. One with cold fingers when I was setting a trigger and the rifle went off. Grass seed had got into the trigger. And second I had rifle with one up the spout on my shoulder. Somehow safety moved to off and pushing past a tree a branch got into the trigger. Muzzle was up and it frightened the living daylights out of me.