New Forest Negligent Discharge

[willyroe]

Used to lamp foxes with a guy who insisted on a round up the spout and relied on the safety, all to avoid the “click”.

just not for me, no game / quarry / fox opportunity outweighs the risk of being out in a pickup for a couple of hours with one up the spout.

makes me shiver just thinking about it.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Hmmm! Worrying and I really do not see the point - is “easing” really required? I have never done it and in 50 years have never had a “lazy” spring misfire. Also begs the question - if the pin is “resting on or in close proximity to the primer” then if the rifle is jarred/dropped will this set the round off? I would need a lot of convincing that this practice is other than a disaster just waiting to happen.

Exactly that.

Work the bolt as normal to chamber a round, but keeping finger on trigger, holding it back.

Try it with an empty case. It does work.

It used to be quite the thing when using Lee Enfields, which cock on closing, and have a large cocking piece sticking out of the back with finger grips. The idea was to carry the rifle with one up the spout but the firing pin in the half-cock position. No firing pin protrusion, and even if the half cock somehow slipped off, hopefully insufficient force to fire the round (firing pin spring tension quite low). When ready to take the shot simply pull back the cocking piece to arm the rifle and fully tension the firing spring.

Also made the misfire drill much safer. No need to open the bolt, just re cock and see if it goes bang the second time. If still no bang, only then cautiously open the bolt and gingerly remove the dud.

Sometimes I think that not all progress has been for the better. And very fond of my No4 MkII.

I had an ND nearly 30 years ago now with a No4 Enfield. I decided to carry it round up the spout and de-cocked.
Well I chambered a round and closed the bolt while holding the trigger. BOOM frightened the bloody life out of me. The muzzle was pointing at the ground a few feet in front of me, so no harm done (except my blood pressure).
I did learn a lesson that day.

I later found out that they used to rapid fire the No4 by pinching the bolt between their fore finger and thumb and holding the trigger down with another finger.

 

[Bandit]

I would have him stalking with me tomorrow. Not with a Blaser I might add. The other chap, no. Lets not start an argument between each other please.

Malc do you allow people to shoot a blaser with you now or have you banned them?

 

[sikamalc]

No not banned them. It's not for me to tell people what rifle they use. But i am very careful of anyone using them. Guiding clients can and is enjoyable and i have met some great people. But I can usually judge people reasonably well.

 

[bfltd0]

No not banned them. It's not for me to tell people what rifle they use. But i am very careful of anyone using them. Guiding clients can and is enjoyable and i have net some great people. But I can usually judge people reasonably well.

Is that as opposed to stalking or trapping them? Got any gold medal heads?

 

[Bandit]

No not banned them. It's not for me to tell people what rifle they use. But i am very careful of anyone using them. Guiding clients can and is enjoyable and i have net some great people. But I can usually judge people reasonably well.

Agreed, i to have met some wonderful people using all brands of rifle. The only ND i have observed was a good friend with a remy varmint 243ai which had just come back from a rifle smith after fetling. I don’t think any one make of rifle is more prone to ND than any other, people on the other hand I’m not so sure. I would however be very upset if you treated me differently just because I use a blaser, I would expect you to treat everyone equally careful.

 

[NigelM]

Agreed, i to have met some wonderful people using all brands of rifle. The only ND i have observed was a good friend with a remy varmint 243ai which had just come back from a rifle smith after fetling. I don’t think any one make of rifle is more prone to ND than any other, people on the other hand I’m not so sure. I would however be very upset if you treated me differently just because I use a blaser, I would expect you to treat everyone equally careful.

Is there such a thing as "Blaserist"? You could start a new protest group.

 

[Bandit]

Is there such a thing as "Blaserist"? You could start a new protest group.

BLM blaser lives matter

 

[Sharpie]

I had an ND nearly 30 years ago now with a No4 Enfield. I decided to carry it round up the spout and de-cocked.
Well I chambered a round and closed the bolt while holding the trigger. BOOM frightened the bloody life out of me. The muzzle was pointing at the ground a few feet in front of me, so no harm done (except my blood pressure).
I did learn a lesson that day.

I later found out that they used to rapid fire the No4 by pinching the bolt between their fore finger and thumb and holding the trigger down with another finger.

I think maybe you did that wrong. With the safety on, when you load it the safety will catch the pin at half cock. Very reliably. So, only then, should you pull the trigger (safety on), whilst restraining the cocking piece from full cock to half cock and pointing it in a safe direction. Once done it's pretty good, but is a complex procedure that needs practice practice practice, and drilled into you as second nature. I am not in that class, since mine is only used on targets, where this mode of operation is not wanted.

 

[Heym SR20]

The challenge I have with Blaser owners is that they think it is perfectly ok to leave a Blaser rifle fully loaded all the time - as in its loaded, taken in a vehicle out stalking back into vehicle into the lodge where its propped in the corner, or perhaps put into the cabinet then every body eats and goes to sleep and its taken back out still fully loaded. It’s perfectly safe they all say. I have been a guest of a guest where I have seen such behaviour so have bitten my tongue and made sure I am well away from the muzzle at all times. And when invited back I have unfortunately had a clash of diaries.

Yes I fully understand they have a sliding decocking safety and floating firing pins etc etc.

But vast majority of gun accidents happen with “unloaded” firearms.

 

[Rafter]

Used to be very common.

The idea was that you had a round chambered, but the rifle wasn’t ‘cocked’, so therefore supposedly safe. It then meant you could crawl in close and make ready nearly silently by simply raising and lowering the bolt handle.

I’ve had older stalkers swear blind it was safe.

I had a 8x57 K98 when I started hunting, and the scope interfered with the safety, so I used to pull the trigger as I lowered the bolt, and cock it when I was ready to shoot. Of course, the rifle also had the original two stage trigger, and one day I was climbing up out of a creek while using the rifle as a walking stick and it fired. I hadn't released the firing pin spring earlier, and must have been walking around for an hour or more with a cocked rifle. Good muzzle awareness stopped me blowing my head off, but didn't do much for the hearing in my right ear.
I was 16 at the time, so maybe God looking out for fools worked in my favor, but I wouldn't rely on it.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

I think maybe you did that wrong. With the safety on, when you load it the safety will catch the pin at half cock. Very reliably. So, only then, should you pull the trigger (safety on), whilst restraining the cocking piece from full cock to half cock and pointing it in a safe direction. Once done it's pretty good, but is a complex procedure that needs practice practice practice, and drilled into you as second nature. I am not in that class, since mine is only used on targets, where this mode of operation is not wanted.

I know full well I did it wrong, it went bang when it shouldn’t.
I think I will stick with my current choice of don’t point it where I shouldn’t. Don’t trust the safety catch and don’t forget it is a mechanical device. They can and do fail, so expect them to and take appropriate care.

 

[rem284]

The challenge I have with Blaser owners is that they think it is perfectly ok to leave a Blaser rifle fully loaded all the time - as in its loaded, taken in a vehicle out stalking back into vehicle into the lodge where its propped in the corner, or perhaps put into the cabinet then every body eats and goes to sleep and its taken back out still fully loaded. It’s perfectly safe they all say. I have been a guest of a guest where I have seen such behaviour so have bitten my tongue and made sure I am well away from the muzzle at all times. And when invited back I have unfortunately had a clash of diaries.

Yes I fully understand they have a sliding decocking safety and floating firing pins etc etc.

But vast majority of gun accidents happen with “unloaded” firearms.

Well you have 2 wrongs in your statement. Firstly I own a Blaser and I treat it like any other fiream. MY procedure is when actively stalking there will be a round in the chamber, safety on or in the case of the r8, not cocked, muzzle awareness HIGH PRIORITY. When I get back to the vehicle, point rifle in a safe direction(not close to anyone's feet, vehicle, dog or anything of any importance), leave safety on(r8 decocked), open bolt, place unfired round in magazine, leave bolt open, safety on(r8 remains decocked), remove magazine. MUZZLE AWARENESS, still high. Place it in the vehicle. When back at the house, look at the rifle to make sure the bolt is open or removed. Enter house, again, check the rifle, remove mod, dry mod and clean as required before securing in gun safe. Bolt, ammo, mag secured separate from rifle. All rounds of ammo count before the outing and accounted for after.

The second thing you done wrong was to keep quiet when you seen an unsafe procedure/practice.

I dont like the idea of a conventional bolt action rifle with a "eased" firing pin spring on top of a round in the chamber.

I do think the Blaser decocked makes the rifle less likely to discharge unintentionally but it certainly doesn't make it idiot proof, nor will it compensate for incorrect safety procedures

I should add. When I put a rifle in a case/slip the bolt and mag is removed and placed in a separate pouch.

 

[gixer1]

The military still use the “ease springs” theory to this day!

 

[rem284]

Another thing I do is check for myself to see if the rifle/gun is safe if anyone hands my a rifle/gun and says "it's not loaded". This includes if the rifle/gun is in a slip or cover. If I am handing the rifle/gun over to someone else I will show them that the bolt, magazine is out and there is no round in the chamber. When introducing someone to shooting I will tell them to check the status of the rifle/gun no matter who tells them it's safe or unloaded.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Hmm. It goes on as we write. Last night a nice young lad tried to show me his new-to-him 22LR, I asked him to prove it clear first as the magazine was in and the bolt closed. He dropped the mag and cycled the bolt and an hv 22 popped out to which he quickly said “ah but the safety was on”. We had a brief but animated discussion and I hope he now knows proper safety drill.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

The military still use the “ease springs” theory to this day!

The thing is you are dealing with a different situation. Part of the reason is they would rather you “ND” into the sandbags or ground. Than into your oppo when you thought it clear.

Another thing I do is check for myself to see if the rifle/gun is safe if anyone hands my a rifle/gun and says "it's not loaded". This includes if the rifle/gun is in a slip or cover. If I am handing the rifle/gun over to someone else I will show them that the bolt, magazine is out and there is no round in the chamber. When introducing someone to shooting I will tell them to check the status of the rifle/gun no matter who tells them it's safe or unloaded.

My kids were taught to treat all firearms as loaded until they proved otherwise. They could clear a rifle before they could legally fire one. Would not accept a rifle unless shown the empty chamber. They would bollock me when I “accidentally” forget to open the bolt. I never managed to catch them out. My thoughts were if anything happened to me while we were out. They needed to know how to make safe. It also instilled an attitude towards safety that hopefully will last a lifetime.

 

[gixer1]

The thing is you are dealing with a different situation. Part of the reason is they would rather you “ND” into the sandbags or ground. Than into your oppo when you thought it clear.

My kids were taught to treat all firearms as loaded until they proved otherwise. They could clear a rifle before they could legally fire one. Would not accept a rifle unless shown the empty chamber. They would bollock me when I “accidentally” forget to open the bolt. I never managed to catch them out. My thoughts were if anything happened to me while we were out. They needed to know how to make safe. It also instilled an attitude towards safety that hopefully will last a lifetime.

Not saying it’s a bad thing...you just need to make sure the gun is empty and pointed in a safe direction. The police have boxes in the back of firearms cars that you put the muzzle in and pull the trigger.

regards,
Gixer

 

[Stalker62]

The police have boxes in the back of firearms cars that you put the muzzle in and pull the trigger.

I remember when we were first issued ballistic unloading bags.

It lasted about a week before someone put a round through the lid.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Not saying it’s a bad thing...you just need to make sure the gun is empty and pointed in a safe direction. The police have boxes in the back of firearms cars that you put the muzzle in and pull the trigger.

The unloading drill for the SLR was; point in a safe direction, remove the mag', rack the action 3 times, point the muzzle into a safe area (generally a sand-filled bin), and fire off the action.

My own unloading drill for all my rifles is: point to a safe area, safety off (as mine are all only 2-position), cycle bolt to empty chamber, magazine out and count the rounds, or open floor plate and count out the remaining rounds. Then, with the magazine or loose rounds in my pocket, the bolt is closed and the springs eased. Before I enter a building or vehicle, the bolt is cycled again just to be certain the rifle is empty. And if I'm shooting in company, my partner(s) always know the condition my rifle is in, whether that be loaded, or unloaded.