New Home Office Guidance of Firearms Use 2021 - rimfires and Fox, Law on shooting Birds and Animals.

[Heym SR20]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1028960/Firearms_Guide_-_SG_MASTER_-_26102021__002_.pdf

Well worth a read through. Assessing an applicants suitability is now a completely separate document.

Page 91 onwards is all about which calibres are suitable for what etc.

There have been several questions on using 17 HMRs on Fox and what is and isn’t classified as Vermin. There is a whole section on this and about page 96.

There is a whole chapter 14 on the Law on Shooting Birds and Animals. Page 112.

This should be part of every hunter’s basic knowledge.

 

[finnbear270]

And the FEO's.

 

[Primate]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1028960/Firearms_Guide_-_SG_MASTER_-_26102021__002_.pdf

Well worth a read through. Assessing an applicants suitability is now a completely separate document.

Page 91 onwards is all about which calibres are suitable for what etc.

There have been several questions on using 17 HMRs on Fox and what is and isn’t classified as Vermin. There is a whole section on this and about page 96.

There is a whole chapter 14 on the Law on Shooting Birds and Animals. Page 112.

This should be part of every hunter’s basic knowledge.

Have I read this right? Page 109 reloading. It seems to suggest that expanding bullets need to go on ticket as well as loaded ammunition? Surely not?

 

[Tim.243]

And the FEO's.

Off tomorrow?

 

[Heym SR20]

Have I read this right? Page 109 reloading. It seems to suggest that expanding bullets need to go on ticket as well as loaded ammunition? Surely not?

I don’t read this at all. The only comment is that you must not exceed you total ammo allowance with reloaded ammunition. So your ticket says 110 rounds of ammo. You can have as many bullets as you like, but you can only have 110 rounds loaded.

My understanding is that there is now difference in law between expanding and non expanding bullets.

 

[VIGILAIRE]

Section 13.9 p109, why does anyone need authority to possess expanding missiles any more?

 

[Stalker62]

Section 13.9 p109, why does anyone need authority to possess expanding missiles any more?

1. 13.90 It is clear that there are circumstances where home loaders may need to acquire increased quantities of expanding bullets. This can be achieved by authorising a further allocation of expanding missiles separately to the ammunition already authorised. This will allow missiles (bullets) to be held independently from ammunition and allow flexibility where different types and weights of bullet are required.

Perhaps it is me. This seems to be an error.

 

[sako85708]

If it's anything like the General Licence's 90% of shooters will not bother to read, never mind understand !!

 

[mealiejimmy]

This is simply a re-hash of the 2016 Guidance and has not been updated to reflect the changes relating to expanding ammunition and antique weapons
Read the details on this page Firearms licensing law
The document in your link is an interim document with a fully revised and updated version due to be issued before the end of the year.

Cheers

Bruce

 

[MAH]

This should be part of every hunter’s basic knowledge

Thanks for sharing.
I can envisage a future in which it's becomes, the equivalent for shooting, that the Highway Code for driving
That "reading it" is a condition on certificates, maybe a written assessment being part of future applications.

 

[Primate]

I don’t read this at all. The only comment is that you must not exceed you total ammo allowance with reloaded ammunition. So your ticket says 110 rounds of ammo. You can have as many bullets as you like, but you can only have 110 rounds loaded.

My understanding is that there is now difference in law between expanding and non expanding bullets.

It was this bit I was referring to 13.90

also the wording in 13.88. It refers to there being no limit of non expanding projectiles, suggesting there is a limit on expanding?

 

[Heym SR20]

No it does not mean you have to enter any such ammunition on your certificate.

In the past expanding missiles where prohibited under section 5. And you could only hold them with specific authority- and it was why you couldn’t easily send through post etc. In 2017 the law was ammended.

Expanding missiles are no longer section 5 - ie prohibited items. Expanding handgun missiles, missiles designed to penetrate armour protection and incebdary missiles are prohibited.

In section 5 there is now a provision that you do not need approval from the secretary of state to hold expanding ammunition, provided you are authorised on you FAC to use the rifle concerned for deer stalking, vermin or humane destruction of animals.

So if just target shooting as a condition I cannot purchase expanding ammo or expanding missiles. But I can if I have conditioned to shoot deer.

I am not sure if new certificates state that you are allowed to hold a certain number of rounds and expanding missiles.

See Firearms Act 1968

 

[bullet chucker]

During the final stages of my recent renewal, my FEO specifically asked me if I reloaded, said nothing more when I replied yes and that I had just started.

BC.

 

[timbrayford]

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1028960/Firearms_Guide_-_SG_MASTER_-_26102021__002_.pdf

Well worth a read through. Assessing an applicants suitability is now a completely separate document.

Page 91 onwards is all about which calibres are suitable for what etc.

There have been several questions on using 17 HMRs on Fox and what is and isn’t classified as Vermin. There is a whole section on this and about page 96.

There is a whole chapter 14 on the Law on Shooting Birds and Animals. Page 112.

This should be part of every hunter’s basic knowledge.

Any idea why it keeps banging on about expanding ammunition, doesn't the Home Office know that it has been restored to S1 ?

 

[mealiejimmy]

As I have said on several occasions this "new" Guidance is simply the 2016 Guidance with any parts that now come under the new Statutory Guidance on Firearms to police Chiefs https://assets.publishing.service.g...for_Firearms_Licensing_-_Final__Nov_2021_.pdf
removed and replaced with a link to that document.
The "new" Guidance has NOT been updated to reflect changes in firearms law since 2016 and therefore is completely wrong in its statements about expanding ammunition and, I believe, antique firearms.
The HO acknowledges that their "new" document is merely an interim document and that a fully revised version of the Guidance, which has been updated with all the relevant changes in firearms law is due to be published before the end of the year
The relevant changes that have come into force since April 2016 are listed here

Firearms licensing law

Consolidated guidance on firearms legislation.

www.gov.uk

Those changes include putting expanding ammo back into section 1 which makes all the statements in the Guidance about expanding ammunition incorrect

Cheers

Bruce

 

[Heym SR20]

Any idea why it keeps banging on about expanding ammunition, doesn't the Home Office know that it has been restored to S1 ?

Quite, but see my post #12

 

[zambezi]

It was this bit I was referring to 13.90

also the wording in 13.88. It refers to there being no limit of non expanding projectiles, suggesting there is a limit on expanding?View attachment 232062

That looks to be a simplistic cut-n-paste from the 2016 HOG into the 2021 draft without due regard to legislation changes between those two dates.

I.e. an error.

In 2017, the Police and Crime Bill amended the S5 status of expanding ammunition in section 129 of that bill.

In essence, the expanding ammunition prohibition of section 5 (f) of the 1968 Firearms Act was modified to be limited to ammunition that could be used in pistols. [other legislation mandates that we use expanding ammunition in rifles used for deerstalking]

Supporting legislation in sequence: [1] 2016 and 2021 HOG section13.90 side-by-side suggesting cut-n-paste error [2] 1968 Firearms Act pre 2017 Police and Crime Bill ...and after 2017 amendment The 2017 Police and Cime Bill section 129 reads like this: . And that source of legislative change is acknowledged in the 1968 Firearms Act footnotes:

 

[Heym SR20]

That looks to be a simplistic cut-n-paste from the 2016 HOG into the 2021 draft without due regard to legislation changes between those two dates.

I.e. an error.

In 2017, the Police and Crime Bill amended the S5 status of expanding ammunition in section 129 of that bill.

In essence, the expanding ammunition prohibition of section 5 (f) of the 1968 Firearms Act was modified to be limited to ammunition that could be used in pistols. [other legislation mandates that we use expanding ammunition in rifles used for deerstalking]

Supporting legislation in sequence: [1] 2016 and 2021 HOG section13.90 side-by-side suggesting cut-n-paste errorView attachment 232079 [2] 1968 Firearms Act pre 2017 Police and Crime Bill View attachment 232082...and after 2017 amendment View attachment 232083The 2017 Police and Cime Bill section 129 reads like this: View attachment 232084. And that source of legislative change is acknowledged in the 1968 Firearms Act footnotes: View attachment 232085

How dare you state the UK government makes errors in drafting of guidance, legislation or indeed any other document. Never ever have seen such before with exception of……………………. And ……….. and …….

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

BASC update on this here:

Non-statutory Home Office guidance

Read our explanation of the non-statutory Guide on Firearms Licensing Law published by the Home Office and what it means for licence holders.

basc.org.uk

 

[finnbear270]

Perfect confusion document for further confabulation by licensing peeps, & prolly even more from FEO's.