Went to school in Hastings, I remember several families that did not turn up until the hop picking was over, East Sussex and Kent used to have an influx of EastEnders during the hop picking.
No, no, no!
- Thread starter enfieldspares
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NoIDeer
Well-Known Member
Whilst the supermarkets are doing great work at the moment, I think there is a fair bit in their margins that could make the work a bit more attractive.
landkeeper
Well-Known Member
Sorry no if the supermarkets and rip off middlemen didnt want such a high profit margin then consumers could buy food at the same rate but producers could afford to pay more to their workers
Now whether that woukd encourage more indigenous workers rather than migrants would haveto be seen
Now whether that woukd encourage more indigenous workers rather than migrants would haveto be seen
You don't have to go to a supermarket you can go to a farm shop you will pay more and it will not be so convenient for you but they normally pay a bit more for there produced.( They don't employ a buyer to constantly batter the price down). Everyone going to the supermarkets just encourages there behaviour.
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
Why not recruit 16+ year old boarding school pupils to work on farms?
Some people seem to think that seasonal migrant labour is a concept invented by the EU. In fact it's a thoroughly sound economic arrangement that's been around for centuries and continues all over the world.
It's a simple enough idea. Producers of staple foods need to produce them competitively or be put out of business by cheap imports. That means keeping labour costs down and the best way of doing that, since slavery has been abolished, is to import temporary seasonal workers from poorer countries who can afford to work for low pay precisely because they are not UK residents. The workers are housed and fed by their employer, or at least their keep is subsidised and transport to work laid on for them so their living costs are much less than those of a resident native, and while their earnings appear meagre they get to keep much more of what they earn than a resident could. They are therefore motivated to work hard and send as much of their earnings home as they can, where it will be worth many times its UK value (£1 in the UK is worth £6-7 in Bulgaria). When the season comes to an end, provided they haven't squandered their money in the pub, they return home to relative affluence.
Everyone wins. The UK consumer gets to buy UK produced food at affordable prices (which is a vastly better solution than relying on imports) without enslaving the poorest workers in their own society or underwriting food production with the benefits system to get it. The producer stays in business and the UK stays as self-sufficient as possible in food production. The migrants work hard but for a finite period at the end of which they return home where they find themselves amply rewarded which benefits both their immediate families and their national economy.
If anything, EU free movement, rather than facilitating this age-old arrangement of economic symbiosis undermined it by neutralising for political reasons the natural disparities that made it mutually beneficial.
In Lincolnshire FINCH before the Eastern Europeans it was the Portuguese. Yes. But unlike these arrivals post 2004 they came, did the work for the season, went home....and didn't claim Child Benefit for kids back home!
scoby270
Well-Known Member
Rip off middlemen? you mean the companies that take all the risk for you to get cheap stuff on the shelves because you don't want to pay the proper going rate ?.My wife works for one of these so called middlemen and supplies all the main supermarkets in this country, they make a maximum 5% on any one line, great massive profit that isn't it, now there warehouses are full of stock because they can't deliver it and don't get paid until delivery, putting a lot of workers at risk of losing there jobs.
landkeeper
Well-Known Member
Then go chat to primary producers and see what they are getting paid for their produce the hoops they have to jump through and penalties imposed by supermarkets and middlemen
Trouble is transportation. Most of the Europeans stayed on sites next to the farms, whereas Brits would need transportation from home to farm and back.
Not ideal in the current climate, and I doubt if any would fancy staying 8n the on site accommodation.
scoby270
Well-Known Member
My wifes company don't impose penalties, supermarkets do and the hoops they have to jump through are imposed by the EU and Health and Safety not the middlemen, and does that include the primary producer who was sending emails through her Porsche Cayennes wifi system on Friday and is a Billionaire who owns property all over the world including several ranches in America ?.
Gazza0208
Well-Known Member
I think this will all change very quickly, if not starting already, then its going to be a different Equation when there's nothing to blame anything on...and...Most Europeans stay on site or site's because they physically have no need for transport, if students can lay in gutters overnight after getting totally "&7*4" faced...for a week when they start Uni, then a summer on site wont hurt... beleive me I have seen this first hand more than once.. As for transport Brit's are a little bit of a lazy nation (not all), seen many people take the car 500m and park up...and thats not for security...because if it was you wouldn't where your PJ's
FrenchieBoy
Well-Known Member
That varies as most of the producers we worked for paid "piece work rates", meaning that the harder you worked the more you earned but if you were a shirker then your daily pay could be quite low. For instance when we were sprout picking back around 1998-1999 (By hand) we could start at about 8;00 in the morning and knock off at around lunchtime and we would earn on average around £35 - £40 each per day! Strawberry picking at that time was about the same. Those were considered pretty good wages at the time if you worked hard! I suspect that pay rated are somewhat higher nowadays but basically the harder you ar prepared to work the more money you can earn!
When we were hop picking (Around the same period) on a hop farm near Moreton On Lugg in Herefordshire I was in charge of all of the machinery and keeping everything running. I was on an hourly rate then and could earn anything from £60 - £100+ per day, much varied on the weather etc and of course if the main machine broke down (Which it did fairly regularly as it was so old) I was expected to work through the night to get the thing repaired and running again and still stay awake enough to run everything through the following day!
Farmers and growers have to adhere to the national living wage which was £8.21/hour for age 25 and over. Most farms pay piece work rates plus bonus for picking/packing or hourly rates for other work. Overtime at time and a half is paid after 39 hours/week. Farms usually make up wages to the living wage while the workers are being trained and learning the job. After 5/7 days the workers should be able to achieve the living wage when doing piece work. Many workers will make more per hour than £8.21. Some will average £10-15/hour. Those that can't achieve the living wage after a few days will be warned that they could be offered different work or dismissed if they can't work faster. In practice if the worker is honest and trying they will be offered other hourly paid work. Unfortunately some are dismissed or sent back to the labour provider. Last season the average gross wage for fruit pickers/packers at a farm close to me was about £400 - 450/week.
Nice one Hereford you had me going for a minute 
. Very true Frenchieboy, enfieldspares, Finch, scoby270 and LuckieEddie. Yes there should be enough British people available this summer but will they do it? It's very unusual to see Brits picking or packing. There are also many Eastern Europeans that live in the UK that are now out of work and they could be targeted by the farms. I know local fruit farms that are taking on young Brits to help with tunnelling and planting. I just hope that some of them will continue working though the harvest.
Riddick. That must be a large farm close to you so I'm amazed that this sort of behaviour is allowed to continue. What is the name of this business? This is disgusting behaviour and should be stopped! I visit many fruit growers across the UK and am in touch with others and don't see this happening. This type of behaviour was more common a few years ago but tighter regulations and the fact that farms are now tightly audited and scrutinised has dramatically reduced this happening. Farms now have to get planning permission for caravan parks and polytunnels and the local authorities will hold several local public meetings. If there are any major objections from people living near the farm then they will be less likely to get permission to expand their business so the farms are very keen to keep the locals happy.
. Very true Frenchieboy, enfieldspares, Finch, scoby270 and LuckieEddie. Yes there should be enough British people available this summer but will they do it? It's very unusual to see Brits picking or packing. There are also many Eastern Europeans that live in the UK that are now out of work and they could be targeted by the farms. I know local fruit farms that are taking on young Brits to help with tunnelling and planting. I just hope that some of them will continue working though the harvest. Riddick. That must be a large farm close to you so I'm amazed that this sort of behaviour is allowed to continue. What is the name of this business? This is disgusting behaviour and should be stopped! I visit many fruit growers across the UK and am in touch with others and don't see this happening. This type of behaviour was more common a few years ago but tighter regulations and the fact that farms are now tightly audited and scrutinised has dramatically reduced this happening. Farms now have to get planning permission for caravan parks and polytunnels and the local authorities will hold several local public meetings. If there are any major objections from people living near the farm then they will be less likely to get permission to expand their business so the farms are very keen to keep the locals happy.
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