Open Ticket Responsibilities

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georgedoubleyou

Well-Known Member
Hi All,

I have recently been granted my FAC. As per the guidance of the pinned post in this forum (FAQ - Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate), my FAC is closed. The condition is worded as below:

"The .243 Win rifle, sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot."

Now I have two questions about this:

Question 1.
I interpret this as, I have two "boxes to tick" with regards to the land on which I'm shooting. Those are; do I have permission to shoot there, and is the land cleared for my calibre. If the answer to both of those is yes, then I can shoot there. There is no meniton on my certificate that I have to "add" permissions to my ticket. is this the case?

The reason I ask is because when I applied for it, the land I put down was a 2000 acre shooting estate. I have permission on another two estates 600 acres and 2500 acres. I have written permission to shoot on them and they have both been cleared for my calibre. So am I right in thinking that there is no further action required on my part, I can just go ahead and shoot there?

Question 2.
The FEO told me that even though I'm on a closed certificate, I am still authorised to shoot on any land as long as I'm with someone who is allowed to shoot on that land (or on an open ticket). I'm not sure this is quite right as I havent seen any evidence to support this. I have emailed him to get this in writing. I'm waiting for the response, but just wondered what your opinions on this are.

Apologies for the long post!
 
Q1. Yes, as soon as you are certain the land is cleared, you can shoot there. You do NOT need to add land to your FAC. The only time they need the details of a piece of land is 1. At grant/renewal to confirm that you have good reason and 2. To check whether it's been cleared or arranged for it to be cleared

Q2. The only way you can shoot land that isn't cleared for your calibres is to borrow the other person's rifle and use it under their supervision. If the FEO is happy for you to use your own rifle in that way then I'd be asking for a condition that reflects that...
 
You don’t have to register land / permissions.

You do have to satisfy yourself that the land is cleared, the only way to do this for sure is check with the police, rather than say, the gamekeeper’s say so.

So an email asking if estates A,B &C are cleared for you calibre should get you an answer in writing. It will also mean that your FLD will know you’re out shooting on more than one piece of ground and start to build evidence for you getting an open ticket.

Mine was opened after 18 months as I kept asking for different pieces of land 👍.

As above for the other query, you can use someone else’s rifle in that situation if they have an open certificate and written permission to loan a rifle, you can’t use yours.
 
Last edited:
25 Sharps said:
You don’t have to register land / permissions.

You do have to satisfy yourself that the land is cleared, the only way to do this for sure is check with the police, rather than say, the gamekeeper’s say so.

So an email asking if estates A,B &C are cleared for you calibre should get you an answer in writing. It will also mean that your FLD will know you’re out shooting on more than one piece of ground and start to build evidence for you getting an open ticket.

Mine was opened after 18 months as I kept asking for different pieces of land 👍.
Click to expand...
That's great, thank you!
I will get it in writing as a formality, but I know that both of the other estates are definitely cleared because the 600 acre estate up until last year was part of the land I put down on my application and was included in the land clearance, it's just the shooting rights for that part have been leased by someone else (My friend, who is the new gamekeeper). And another friend, who is the keeper on the other 2500 acre estate took the FEO out to show him round the land and it's been cleared up to .308
 
georgedoubleyou said:
That's great, thank you!
I will get it in writing as a formality, but I know that both of the other estates are definitely cleared because the 600 acre estate up until last year was part of the land I put down on my application and was included in the land clearance, it's just the shooting rights for that part have been leased by someone else (My friend, who is the new gamekeeper). And another friend, who is the keeper on the other 2500 acre estate took the FEO out to show him round the land and it's been cleared up to .308
Click to expand...
Sounds like you going to be busy 👍
 
SimpleSimon said:
Q2. The only way you can shoot land that isn't cleared for your calibres is to borrow the other person's rifle and use it under their supervision. If the FEO is happy for you to use your own rifle in that way then I'd be asking for a condition that reflects that...
Click to expand...
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I this case, I know that the land is cleared for my calibre so I should be fine.

Thanks for your help
 
georgedoubleyou said:
Hi All,

I have recently been granted my FAC. As per the guidance of the pinned post in this forum (FAQ - Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate), my FAC is closed. The condition is worded as below:

"The .243 Win rifle, sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot."

Now I have two questions about this:

Question 1.
I interpret this as, I have two "boxes to tick" with regards to the land on which I'm shooting. Those are; do I have permission to shoot there, and is the land cleared for my calibre. If the answer to both of those is yes, then I can shoot there. There is no meniton on my certificate that I have to "add" permissions to my ticket. is this the case?

The reason I ask is because when I applied for it, the land I put down was a 2000 acre shooting estate. I have permission on another two estates 600 acres and 2500 acres. I have written permission to shoot on them and they have both been cleared for my calibre. So am I right in thinking that there is no further action required on my part, I can just go ahead and shoot there?

Question 2.
The FEO told me that even though I'm on a closed certificate, I am still authorised to shoot on any land as long as I'm with someone who is allowed to shoot on that land (or on an open ticket). I'm not sure this is quite right as I havent seen any evidence to support this. I have emailed him to get this in writing. I'm waiting for the response, but just wondered what your opinions on this are.

Apologies for the long post!
Click to expand...
The part in bold is not correct as you should follow the condition on your cert, so if the land is cleared and you have permission then do that.
A person with an open ticket or has permission to shoot the land can not clear it for you as that is the job of the police,
Also with borrowing a rifle then that person has to have the sporting rights or be the occupier to lend a rifle (very grey area)

Follow what is on your cert, mine was opened up in 14 months...
Tim
 
georgedoubleyou said:
Hi All,

I have recently been granted my FAC. As per the guidance of the pinned post in this forum (FAQ - Do I have an Open or Closed Certificate), my FAC is closed. The condition is worded as below:

"The .243 Win rifle, sound moderator and ammunition shall be used for shooting deer and any other lawful quarry, and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the chief officer of police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot."

Now I have two questions about this:

Question 1.
I interpret this as, I have two "boxes to tick" with regards to the land on which I'm shooting. Those are; do I have permission to shoot there, and is the land cleared for my calibre. If the answer to both of those is yes, then I can shoot there. There is no meniton on my certificate that I have to "add" permissions to my ticket. is this the case?

The reason I ask is because when I applied for it, the land I put down was a 2000 acre shooting estate. I have permission on another two estates 600 acres and 2500 acres. I have written permission to shoot on them and they have both been cleared for my calibre. So am I right in thinking that there is no further action required on my part, I can just go ahead and shoot there?

Question 2.
The FEO told me that even though I'm on a closed certificate, I am still authorised to shoot on any land as long as I'm with someone who is allowed to shoot on that land (or on an open ticket). I'm not sure this is quite right as I havent seen any evidence to support this. I have emailed him to get this in writing. I'm waiting for the response, but just wondered what your opinions on this are.

Apologies for the long post!
Click to expand...

Follow the conditions in your certificate. The land you stalk on has been cleared so work with that.

If a friend invites you to stalk and you have any doubts as to clearance, don’t take your rifle. You can still get really good experience by accompanying and observing.

Bide your time, get experience and your ticket will soon be opened.
 
Tim.243 said:
The part in bold is not correct as you should follow the condition on your cert, so if the land is cleared and you have permission then do that.
A person with an open ticket or has permission to shoot the land can not clear it for you as that is the job of the police,
Also with borrowing a rifle then that person has to have the sporting rights or be the occupier to lend a rifle (very grey area)

Follow what is on your cert, mine was opened up in 14 months...
Tim
Click to expand...
The estate rule is not a very grey area ant all and was recently clarified in the firearms act.
 
Tim.243 said:
Where is the form listed to fill in so you can become the occupier for an estate rifle in the recently clarified part of the firearms act?
I have looked but can't find it!
Click to expand...
I presume he is refering to this.........

(2)The first condition is that the borrowing and possession of the rifle or shot gun are for either or both of the following purposes—

(a)hunting animals or shooting game or vermin;

(b)shooting at artificial targets.

(3)The second condition is that the lender—

(a)is aged 18 or over,

(b)holds a certificate under this Act in respect of the rifle or shot gun, and

(c)is either—

(i)a person who has a right to allow others to enter the premises for the purposes of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

(ii)a person who is authorised in writing by a person mentioned in sub-paragraph (i) to lend the rifle or shot gun on the premises (whether generally or to persons specified in the authorisation who include the borrower).
 
CharlieT said:
I presume he is refering to this.........

(2)The first condition is that the borrowing and possession of the rifle or shot gun are for either or both of the following purposes—

(a)hunting animals or shooting game or vermin;

(b)shooting at artificial targets.

(3)The second condition is that the lender—

(a)is aged 18 or over,

(b)holds a certificate under this Act in respect of the rifle or shot gun, and

(c)is either—

(i)a person who has a right to allow others to enter the premises for the purposes of hunting animals or shooting game or vermin, or

(ii)a person who is authorised in writing by a person mentioned in sub-paragraph (i) to lend the rifle or shot gun on the premises (whether generally or to persons specified in the authorisation who include the borrower).
Click to expand...
Yes that is very clear, however there is no guidance (model) just like when you apply to make a variation from a closed ticket to an open one as it is a variation as they will require a start middle and end as you need to demonstrate why you need it also experience gained to go along with your reasons for an open ticket.

It is fine to say that the estate rules have been amended but you have to start just like there are template letter (permission slip)
That is why I said it is a Grey Area around the estate rule as you can bet a manager or owner has not written one out before so one would hope it was well worded not to put you on the wrong side of the law as you will be handing over a rifle to put it in a nut shell A STRANGER!
Where would you start?
 
Last edited:
Tim

Surely you of all people are not becoming one of those who need or require an official template to copy or fill in to enable you to write a letter to comply with the law.

The chap I allow to stalk my land has, on occasion, asked me if it's OK to take out someone he is giving experience too and use the estate rifle rule. In such instances I just write him a letter stating that I authorize him to do so. Simple as that and thus complying with the requirements of the legislation. Nothing grey about it.
 
Tim.243 said:
Where is the form listed to fill in so you can become the occupier for an estate rifle in the recently clarified part of the firearms act?
I have looked but can't find it!
Click to expand...
That’s because there is no form.

You simply need it in writing that you are acting as the occupier and have permission to loan a rifle, from someone with authority to confirm it in writing.
 
Tim.243 said:
Yes that is very clear, however there is no guidance (model) just like when you apply to make a variation from a closed ticket to an open one as it is a variation as they will require a start middle and end as you need to demonstrate why you need it also experience gained to go along with your reasons for an open ticket.

It is fine to say that the estate rules have been amended but you have to start just like there are template letter (permission slip)
That is why I said it is a Grey Area around the estate rule as you can bet a manager or owner has not written one out before so one would hope it was well worded not to put you on the wrong side of the law as you will be handing over a rifle to put it in a nut shell A STRANGER!
Where would you start?
Click to expand...
You’re over complicating it in an effort to sound clever.

If you need an open ticket, write a letter requesting and set out your reasoning why. If you want to loan a rifle under the estate rule get permission in writing as above.

Anything else is just noise…
 
CharlieT said:
Tim

Surely you of all people are not becoming one of those who need or require an official template to copy or fill in to enable you to write a letter to comply with the law.

The chap I allow to stalk my land has, on occasion, asked me if it's OK to take out someone he is giving experience too and use the estate rifle rule. In such instances I just write him a letter stating that I authorize him to do so. Simple as that and thus complying with the requirements of the legislation. Nothing grey about it.
Click to expand...
You are correct but a lot of people who have never been in that position don't know where to start. Also that is not how it would work on an Estate with the opposite to your experienced friend that is what the estate rules are based on...
The estate/loan rules cater for people who don't have experience or own a rifle or need to borrow one that is what it is in the legislation as we both know.
I take a friend out stalking with his rifle as he helps with the foxing in the summer harvest, Alan ok's it with verbal permission and we go but I don't
I was the occupier for 3 farms as the FAD would not clear them for a lads .308 with a closed ticket so while he got time under his belt he came with me using the .270. Now he has an open ticket he is out stalking and doing ok.
The farm manager is not a shooter so was lost on where to start with the letter, a FEO friend checked what I came up with and the manager was happy.
This is all easy with years under our belts but we all started out not knowing much about the rules and reg's also how it works.
 
georgedoubleyou said:
The reason I ask is because when I applied for it, the land I put down was a 2000 acre shooting estate. I have permission on another two estates 600 acres and 2500 acres. I have written permission to shoot on them and they have both been cleared for my calibre. So am I right in thinking that there is no further action required on my part, I can just go ahead and shoot there?
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that although its not added to your certificate when you hold a closed licence you need to inform firearms of all new permissions and they will then contact you once they are happy for you to shoot on them. This is regardless of if its already been cleared by someone else. If anything that should technically speed the whole process up though as the shouldn't need to land visit due to already checked.
But mu understanding is you only can shoot on land they know you have written permission on. I think there are land permission sheet you can get to send in even. I could be completely wrong though.
 
dazrc said:
I was under the impression that although its not added to your certificate when you hold a closed licence you need to inform firearms of all new permissions and they will then contact you once they are happy for you to shoot on them. This is regardless of if its already been cleared by someone else. If anything that should technically speed the whole process up though as the shouldn't need to land visit due to already checked.
But mu understanding is you only can shoot on land they know you have written permission on. I think there are land permission sheet you can get to send in even. I could be completely wrong though.
Click to expand...
This is where the confusion is, theres nothing on my certificate or the home office guidance, or anywhere else that says I have to add land to my ticket. it just simply says that I need permission to shoot there and the ground needs to be cleared.
 
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