Pine Marten's symbolically-charged drilling.

[Pine Marten]

You can form 7x57R brass from .303 brass, and from .444 Marlin.

Interestingly, I've had no trouble buying 7x57R brass. I ordered sixty new S&B cases from McAvoy Guns last week at a knockdown price (again, not much demand...) and they arrived a couple of days later. I'm picking up the dies from Bisley on Sunday.

 

[Sinistral]

Interestingly, I've had no trouble buying 7x57R brass. I ordered sixty new S&B cases from McAvoy Guns last week at a knockdown price (again, not much demand...) and they arrived a couple of days later. I'm picking up the dies from Bisley on Sunday.

I hope standard USA 7x57 dies work okay for you when it comes to resizing. Redding and RCBS list different die-sets for rimless and rimmed in this because of headspacing.

There are rim-to-shoulder, and rim-to-neck length differences in the C.I.P. (Deutsch) dimension for 7x57 and 7x57R, and the SAAMI spec for 7x57 differs from CIP as well.

 

[Southern]

Yes, I have both RCBS 7x57R and Lee 7x57mm Mauser. They both produce a full-length resize which is a perfect fit.
I am using fired brass from ammunition, so I am going to set up my just a Lee Neck Resizing die set.

I am still pretty new to this cartridge, so I am trying different things. I had the Lee die set already, so I started with that until I could find an RCBS set. A lot of metric dies in the USA are only produced once a year in a small run. I check all the brass before priming.

 

[mchughcb]

I have been using Redding 7x57 dies for many years for my 7x57R RWS brass with not one problem and more than 10 reloads so far from the brass.

 

[Pine Marten]

We're on the move with this now. The seller in Germany has asked for paperwork and money, finally. Not long to go now! Interestingly, he wants to send the gun on two parcels, presumably as a means of ensuring no unauthorised access between himself and me. Commendable, if expensive.

 

[Mr. Gain]

Good to hear you're making progress.

Re. shooting the gun. Replicating the original load as per Southern's advice is the best way to get the points of aim and impact to match when using the open sights, but it is obviously much less critical with a drilling than with a double rifle.

I suspect you won't feel the urge to hunt with the open sights for a while at least, however, as you have a soundly-mounted scope on board, so simply zero that as normal, and note the adjustments necessary if/when you change between your practice and hunting loads.

Also as normal, and accuracy permitting, test the scope for even/repeatable tracking and calibrate the clicks/dials to confirm they really do move the point of impact by 1cm @ 100m to make any future adjustments easier.

My Drilling tolerates shooting 3-shot groups perfectly well without divergence due to overheating and yours may too. You'll soon find out.

 

[Klenchblaize]

That sounds like good advise.

Certainly not a setup to shoot 30 rounds (three 10-shot groups) in 30 minutes on a BSRC Match Day.

K

 

[Pine Marten]

You're right, Mr Gain, I plan to use the rifle barrel with the scope for now, but I will practice with open sights too when I've worked out a load, see where it shoots.

K, you're quite right, it's not a range rifle, and won't visit Bisley much once I've worked out a stalking load. But it different from a bolt action so I want to do a couple of stalker tests and so on just to develop a feel for it. And for fun of course!

It's paid for now, so things should move quickly, hopefully. But not fast enough to try it out at the BSRC on Sunday, because I very much doubt I'll be able to find any ammunition, even if it does arrive by the weekend. Which is pushing it anyway.

 

[Pine Marten]

Oh, and why the he'll didn't you get one with .22 Hornet barrel on top?!
‎
K

Klenchblaize, I just saw this and thought of you. Do you have a spare three grand?
http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/141020205458797

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thanks PM but anything that looks like a shotgun does little for me.

This is more my thing if talking vintage but what a pity some god-fearing clown messed with the forend:
http://www.hallowellco.com/Glaser%20Heeren.htm

And if my 6 numbers came up:
http://www.hallowellco.com/griffin 1669 fugger high wall.htm

K

 

[Southern]

K, you're quite right, it's not a range rifle, and won't visit Bisley much once I've worked out a stalking load. But it different from a bolt action so I want to do a couple of stalker tests and so on just to develop a feel for it. And for fun of course!

Don't underestimate the drilling. My JP Sauer 16 / 8x57 shot 1.5 inch groups and better when I used its 2.5x scope. ( I never should have traded it.)
The 7x57R seems to be a most accurate cartridge. Many other owners I have found have loads which shoot better than 1 MOA. Many say they have been surprised that their drilling or combi outshoots all their highly-tuned bolt acction rifles.

 

[Pine Marten]

Oh I don't underestimate it at all! I just don't want to wear out the barrel or loosen the action on the range: it's an all-round hunting gun, not a target one. If I wear it out, I want it to happen because of a surfeit of adventures!

 

[Southern]

Just keep the rifle loads at 40,000 PSI or below, and shoot low bras shotgun loads and you can shoot it forever.

I am hunting with shotguns made over 100 years ago, and God knows how many shells they have fired, but still so tight. I hunt with an 1888 Commission Rifle in 8x57I, an 1893 Mauser in 6.5x55 Swede, an 1894 Marlin, a 1903 Springfield made in 1918, a .303 Enfield made in 1914, and an early Sporting Mauser in 8x60S. That 1888 was used by the German Army, the Turks in WWI, the Chinese in WWII, and North Vietnamese until I got it, but it was shooting ammunition loaded to 40,000 PSI or less.

120 or 140 grain bullets, start with 38.5 grains of Varget, RL-15, 4895 or 4064 and work up to 40 grains. There is a sweet spot or two in there.

 

[Mr. Gain]

Klenchblaize, I just saw this and thought of you. Do you have a spare three grand?
http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale/141020205458797

I'm not sue in what universe that Drilling was worth £20,000 new, but it's certainly not worth £3,000 now. To my eye, at least, it's a run-of-the-mill example, with plain wood and naive engraving, and chambered for too modest a rifle cartridge to have major appeal, what's more, there's no sign of the other half of its claw mounts (the elements originally attached to its scope), which makes what's there all but worthless.

 

[Heym SR20]

I'm not sue in what universe that Drilling was worth £20,000 new, but it's certainly not worth £3,000 now. To my eye, at least, it's a run-of-the-mill example, with plain wood and naive engraving, and chambered for too modest a rifle cartridge to have major appeal, what's more, there's no sign of the other half of its claw mounts (the elements originally attached to its scope), which makes what's there all but worthless.

The Winklers in Ferlach are really top end makers.
European equivalent of London best whereas as the Sauer 3000 et al are the Webley / Birmingham built equivalent. Ferlach built combination guns go for good money. It is not that difficult to get new rings fitted to the claws for a scope. The cost of rings is about £140, plus time to fit them. The wood to me looks good - very nice and strong with straight grain. Look at the London best guns of yesteryear and they were stocked for strength. Most modern day fancy stocks will break sooner or later.

 

[Heym SR20]

PM - we are due for the next instalment on this post. Is it on its way yet??

meanwhile, you do realise the Sauer Drilling were once issued to Luftwaffe Pilots for use in survival situations. Interesting thread here Forums.NitroExpress.com

the Americans picked up on the idea and issued the Ithaca M6 to aircrews in the 1950's to 1960's. A 22hornet / 410 made of pressed steel - the ugliest thing ever made?
The M6 Survival Gun: Backpackers breakaction combo (VIDEO)
I know which I would rather have on my desert island!

 

[Pine Marten]

PM - we are due for the next instalment on this post. Is it on its way yet??

meanwhile, you do realise the Sauer Drilling were once issued to Luftwaffe Pilots for use in survival situations.

You're damned right, we are, but I don't have one other than to say William Evans have sent their paperwork, I've sent mine and the money, that was a week ago and no-one's any the wiser. That said, it would be fair to say that the German dealer's communication has been minimalist. When we has some news, he shares it. Otherwise, total radio silence. Last week, we said that when he had everything from us he'd apply for an export licence. I daresay that's what he's waiting for, as am I. It would be nice to have some news by the weekend but it's out of my hands.

As regards the Luftwaffe drilling, I know they're quite sought after but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, even if they weren't in 9.3x74R. I saw one of Goering's Merkel shotguns up for sale in an auction once and I wouldn't go near that either. I have a marked aversion for military gear, let alone kit with Nazi associations...

 

[Mr. Gain]

Re. Luftwaffe Drillings: agreed. Their only redeeming feature is that being shot down was a prerequisite for their use.

 

[Heym SR20]

You're damned right, we are, but I don't have one other than to say William Evans have sent their paperwork, I've sent mine and the money, that was a week ago and no-one's any the wiser. That said, it would be fair to say that the German dealer's communication has been minimalist. When we has some news, he shares it. Otherwise, total radio silence. Last week, we said that when he had everything from us he'd apply for an export licence. I daresay that's what he's waiting for, as am I. It would be nice to have some news by the weekend but it's out of my hands.

As regards the Luftwaffe drilling, I know they're quite sought after but I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole, even if they weren't in 9.3x74R. I saw one of Goering's Merkel shotguns up for sale in an auction once and I wouldn't go near that either. I have a marked aversion for military gear, let alone kit with Nazi associations...

Yes I know what you mean about military kit and especially that with Nazi associations, but I thought it was an interesting annecdote.

 

[Southern]

The US Army Air Corps issued the little M6 folding combination gun .410/.22 Hornet, and issued the Savage M24.

I have handled a Luftwaffe drilling and a combination gun, as well as several of Hermann Goering's rifles. One of my hunting rifles, a bargain found in a pawn shop ad online, turned out to be a JP Sauer sporting Mauser with Luftwaffe markings. All of these are solid hunting firearms, not fancy, simply well-made. I have photos somewhere of all these things. I am afraid that if you buy a drilling, combination gun, or sporting rifle from the 1930s or 1940s, it is going to have that imprimatur.