Pistol for humane dispatch

[paultap]

Hi guys,

I would be very interested to hear from anybody who has had experience in applying for a pistol for humane dispatch (for stalking use) specifically in the Gwent area of South Wales. I.e. Did the force try to impose their wishes on you as regards to pistol type, calibre, restricted pistol ammo capacity etc.

Incidentally, I have owned several full bore calibre pistols in semi auto and revolver form in different calibers and fired many thousands of rounds in the years before the 1997 handgun ban, so I am quite familiar with calibre capability and pistol function/handling etc.

Please PM me if you prefer.

many thanks.

 

[Chasey]

The dispatch pistol will almost certainly have to be a revolver, it will be restricted to two shots and they like to push you on to a .32 but a 357 is easy to justifie for Fallow and occasional boor and far more versatile in round choice as it will take the low noise low recoil 38 special right up to the magnum.

Personally I would like a silenced VB9 9X19mm veterinary dispatch bolt action, but mention moderators in the same breath as pistols and you get a funny look. SEE LINK below

BT AG

 

[smullery]

.410 “pistol” not a problem in Lincs.
Stan

 

[deerwarden]

I have a Smith and Wesson 686 in 357, Norfolk F/A dept went the usual route of denying a handgun when I applied for one. They suggested there is no real need for stalkers to have one. So I went done the route of changing my needs for a humane dispatch pistol as a pro stalker, to a semi auto 2 shot pistol. I was soon granted a slot for a two shot pistol, my Wesson 686 is a cracking gun, and the ability to use 357 mag as well as 38 special is handy. One day, not in our life times, the police will all be singing from the same hymn book, rather than making up stupid denial decisions, or burying their heads in the sand. deerwarden

 

[deerwarden]

If you can prove you have a need for one, it should be granted as such, you may have to account for why you cannot dispatch a wounded animal with other means but you will have to push for one as the police forces are not happy to readily agree to allow the ownership of pistols etc. I'm afraid your previous use/ownership of firearms will have no bearing on the granting of a humane dispatch weapon at all. Each request to own H.D. firearms will be on any real need to own one. Be prepared to give a real reason to be granted one, and deal with the F.A. dept accordingly. deerwarden

 

[Noah]

I have already posted this reply on a different thread but don't know how to link to it, so.

Take a look at the NGO's magazine "Keeping the Balance" summer 2018 page 40.

the NGO member concerned was refused a .45 self loading pistol by ACC Richard Lewis South Wales Police and appealed against the decision. The appeal was upheld by Cardiff Crown Court.
Even more interesting was that the main objection to pistol was based on the fact that ACC Lewis thought that "the SLP was much more desirable to criminals and terrorists than a revolver and could more easily take a full magazine of ammunition."​

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Having shot thousands of deer of all six species in the UK, and attended hundreds of roadside humane dispatch callouts from the police, not once have I ever had a situation that required a pistol.
When stalking, the rifle is always the preferred option at a close and sensible range without spooking the deer. On the roadside, a silenced folding .410 is by far the safest and effective method. Pistols are not very accurate, very likely to ricochet, (especially with a miss which is likely!) and easy to lose.
Most stalkers that hold pistols for humane dispatch merely hold them as a very loose excuse for holding one at all.
Very few pro stalkers carry a pistol. To apply for one as an amateur that shoots very few deer is a joke. After the pistol ban, numerous pistol holders did their DSC 1 course in a vain attempt to retain their pistols. I'm not saying I agree with the pistol ban, but please don't break deer management in a vain attempt to be able to carry a hand gun!
I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!
Rifle or shot gun/pistol at close range.
MS

 

[Overlay]

Having shot thousands of deer of all six species in the UK, and attended hundreds of roadside humane dispatch callouts from the police, not once have I ever had a situation that required a pistol.
When stalking, the rifle is always the preferred option at a close and sensible range without spooking the deer. On the roadside, a silenced folding .410 is by far the safest and effective method. Pistols are not very accurate, very likely to ricochet, (especially with a miss which is likely!) and easy to lose.
Most stalkers that hold pistols for humane dispatch merely hold them as a very loose excuse for holding one at all.
Very few pro stalkers carry a pistol. To apply for one as an amateur that shoots very few deer is a joke. After the pistol ban, numerous pistol holders did their DSC 1 course in a vain attempt to retain their pistols. I'm not saying I agree with the pistol ban, but please don't break deer management in a vain attempt to be able to carry a hand gun!
I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!
Rifle or shot gun/pistol at close range.
MS

yep agree100%

I had a 2 shot pistol and I fired more rounds at paper than dispatch, give it up as I couldn’t justify having it in the cabinet - didn’t have any problem with the FEO getting it but when dispatching an animal I use either the WMR, 222 or the 20 gauge - have no need for a pistol, waste of cabinent space IMHO

 

[User00021]

I had a .44mag for a few years, then sold it. Sussex used the opportunity to refuse the one for one variation as they had "changed" their policy and only .38 was acceptable the jokers. Contrary to others I found the pistol useful, especially out of season when monitoring the deer as I didn't want to lug a rifle around but may still come across injured animals. The addition of a laser sight grip greatly enhanced the gun in low light scenarios and assisted me on a road side fallow dispatch. My handgun experience sounds similar to yours but is of little merit on your variation. Stick to the home office guidelines and a .38/.357 if you want an easy ride.

 

[bryn]

Having shot thousands of deer of all six species in the UK, and attended hundreds of roadside humane dispatch callouts from the police, not once have I ever had a situation that required a pistol.
When stalking, the rifle is always the preferred option at a close and sensible range without spooking the deer. On the roadside, a silenced folding .410 is by far the safest and effective method. Pistols are not very accurate, very likely to ricochet, (especially with a miss which is likely!) and easy to lose.
Most stalkers that hold pistols for humane dispatch merely hold them as a very loose excuse for holding one at all.
Very few pro stalkers carry a pistol. To apply for one as an amateur that shoots very few deer is a joke. After the pistol ban, numerous pistol holders did their DSC 1 course in a vain attempt to retain their pistols. I'm not saying I agree with the pistol ban, but please don't break deer management in a vain attempt to be able to carry a hand gun!
I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!
Rifle or shot gun/pistol at close range.
MS

Well said
bryn

 

[bally]

I also was a hand gun owner in the years when one could, and I agree with monkey spanker. i was in Africa and we came across a gazelle which had been attacked and mortally injured. The PH had a nine mm semi. one of our party asked if he could dispatch the animal with the pistol, and at 2 foot away missed the head.gave me a reason to give him some crap for the rest of the trip.

Having shot thousands of deer of all six species in the UK, and attended hundreds of roadside humane dispatch callouts from the police, not once have I ever had a situation that required a pistol.
When stalking, the rifle is always the preferred option at a close and sensible range without spooking the deer. On the roadside, a silenced folding .410 is by far the safest and effective method. Pistols are not very accurate, very likely to ricochet, (especially with a miss which is likely!) and easy to lose.
Most stalkers that hold pistols for humane dispatch merely hold them as a very loose excuse for holding one at all.
Very few pro stalkers carry a pistol. To apply for one as an amateur that shoots very few deer is a joke. After the pistol ban, numerous pistol holders did their DSC 1 course in a vain attempt to retain their pistols. I'm not saying I agree with the pistol ban, but please don't break deer management in a vain attempt to be able to carry a hand gun!
I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!
Rifle or shot gun/pistol at close range.
MS

 

[Ranger22]

Having shot thousands of deer of all six species in the UK, and attended hundreds of roadside humane dispatch callouts from the police, not once have I ever had a situation that required a pistol.
When stalking, the rifle is always the preferred option at a close and sensible range without spooking the deer. On the roadside, a silenced folding .410 is by far the safest and effective method. Pistols are not very accurate, very likely to ricochet, (especially with a miss which is likely!) and easy to lose.
Most stalkers that hold pistols for humane dispatch merely hold them as a very loose excuse for holding one at all.
Very few pro stalkers carry a pistol. To apply for one as an amateur that shoots very few deer is a joke. After the pistol ban, numerous pistol holders did their DSC 1 course in a vain attempt to retain their pistols. I'm not saying I agree with the pistol ban, but please don't break deer management in a vain attempt to be able to carry a hand gun!
I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!
Rifle or shot gun/pistol at close range.
MS

When I was reading the post from the start, the first thing that came to my mind was “why” ? Like MS says I have never felt the need to have a pistol, my rifle or knife is capable of doing the business. I to don’t know any professional stalkers that have a pistol for dispatch. Tells you something

 

[flying felix]

.........I carried a pistol for years as a personal weapon in the military and they are rubbish!...........

Might I suggest that your opinion that pistols are rubbish is based on the fact that you may have had a pistol issued as a personal weapon, but you never had an occasion to actually use it other than the range. Had you been in a situation where you needed to rely on the pistol you'd be singing a different tune.

I also was a hand gun owner in the years when one could, and I agree with monkey spanker. i was in Africa and we came across a gazelle which had been attacked and mortally injured. The PH had a nine mm semi. one of our party asked if he could dispatch the animal with the pistol, and at 2 foot away missed the head.gave me a reason to give him some crap for the rest of the trip.

The skill with a pistol takes some time to obtain and is very quickly lost with lack of practice. I would suggest that the situation you mentioned is not a problem with the choice of firearm but the lack of competence of the person using it.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Regardless of anyone's personal view on the need for a handgun for humane dispatch, the fact remains that they are subject to the same legislation as any other firearm. Personally, I don't like the AR-style firearms. Does that mean I don't think they should be allowed? No. Just because I neither like, or need one doesn't mean that the next guy doesn't.

There are several very good reasons why a handgun would be preferable to a rifle at close range for dispatch, including sub-surface ricochets, pass-throughs, fragmentation, thrown-up earth and stones, access, discretion, availability, noise . . . .

As firearms owners we're under enough pressure as it is without starting down the route of dictating to each other what we should and shouldn't be using.

Palmer vs Chief Constable Humberside Police (2003-2004), and Hall vs Chief Constable Northumbria Constabulary (2005) . . . . .

' . . . .the grant of authorities for the use of a handgun for the purpose of humane dispatch of animals is not confined to professionals, but to anyone who can satisfy the good reason test.'

 

[User00025]

If you need a pistol, the best is one of the old Humane killer, single shot .32 that Huntsmen used to carry, but very hard to find one now. A .410 does the job adequately.

 

[VSS]

+1 to what Monkey Spanker wrote.

I shoot quite a lot of animals at very close range, including, occasionally, cattle, and a 410 shotgun is the best tool for the job.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Might I suggest that your opinion that pistols are rubbish is based on the fact that you may have had a pistol issued as a personal weapon, but you never had an occasion to actually use it other than the range. Had you been in a situation where you needed to rely on the pistol you'd be singing a different tune.



The skill with a pistol takes some time to obtain and is very quickly lost with lack of practice. I would suggest that the situation you mentioned is not a problem with the choice of firearm but the lack of competence of the person using it.

No, your suggestion is wrong. Whilst I flew around some pretty nasty places, I carried a pistol as well as a 5.56 rifle. I only ever relied on the pistol as a 'personal' weapon in that I would use the last bullet in it to shoot myself if it all went very wrong! Hopefully I wouldn't miss!
Skill does take time to develop, but you are probably only going to develop it shooting at paper. The reality of a wounded deer thrashing around at low light in ditch or on the road is somewhat different!
As Ranger22 says above, if the were beneficial, all pro stalkers would carry them - but very few do.
MS

 

[jim_allen_uk]

Might I suggest that your opinion that pistols are rubbish is based on the fact that you may have had a pistol issued as a personal weapon, but you never had an occasion to actually use it other than the range. Had you been in a situation where you needed to rely on the pistol you'd be singing a different tune.



The skill with a pistol takes some time to obtain and is very quickly lost with lack of practice. I would suggest that the situation you mentioned is not a problem with the choice of firearm but the lack of competence of the person using it.

Surely that’s more reason to use folding a .410 rather than pistols if you need constant practise with pistols to keep competent and safe.

 

[User00025]

No, your suggestion is wrong. Whilst I flew around some pretty nasty places, I carried a pistol as well as a 5.56 rifle. I only ever relied on the pistol as a 'personal' weapon in that I would use the last bullet in it to shoot myself if it all went very wrong! Hopefully I wouldn't miss!

MS

Way too modern for me SMLE 303 in my time, pistol for close work? anything I could lay my hands on. One of the lads carried a sawn off 20 bore with a pistol grip on occasion.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Way too modern for me SMLE 303 in my time, pistol for close work? anything I could lay my hands on. One of the lads carried a sawn off 20 bore with a pistol grip on occasion.

I remember chatting to some bloke call 'Bob' in a jungle that was carrying a 5.56 Carbine with a M203 grenade launcher. He was very knowledgeable and explained the pros and cons of various weapons in various situations. When I asked why he had chosen that one for that particular day his answer was very interesting!
"Oh this one", he said............. " I prefer this one as it looks better in photos"!
MS