Police (Scotland) warning...?

[Tf223]

Police officers in England have different powers than that in Scotland , a caution in Scotland is an explanation of your rights before you are formally charged or interviewed , officers who before an officer can interview you and bring allegations towards you in Scotland they have to caution that every thing you say or do within giving that statement to them will be used in evidence, in England police officers have the right to Arrest caution and put a case forward to the Crown only the Procurator Fiscal can do that in Scotland hence why police officers have to investigate , interview under caution giving you your rights then put a report to the procurator fiscal before a formal charge can be authorised or made. Only serious crimes can bypass some of that and the PF will review the report within the legal detention period.

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Ahhh sorry you meant caution as in cautioned prior to questioning.

 

[Tulloch]

Ahhh sorry you meant caution as in cautioned prior to questioning.

yes as in Scotland there is only two processes , Cautioning before questioning and charge , the rest is either inadmissible information or not under police service of Scotlands ability unless you are being formely charged by a rank above inspector , it is a strange process and something I have heavily read into over the years.

I am always surprised on how little powers that Scottish police officers actually have, like only having the powers of arrest after authority has been given etc, its all in the wording. PSoS constables have less powers against civilians than English police officers, one of the strangest thing though is in Scotland a police officer on a night out does not have to make you aware that he/she is an off duty officer when they enter say a nightclub but in England they are supposed to, not that they always do though.

 

[Huntersforge]

For those of us who love our stalking there is a lesson here.
I have seen things go tits up on so many nights out in the past and as such don’t do the pub or works nights out.
I sincerely hope it all works out well for you.
HF

 

[Mick9abf]

yes as in Scotland there is only two processes , Cautioning before questioning and charge , the rest is either inadmissible information or not under police service of Scotlands ability unless you are being formely charged by a rank above inspector , it is a strange process and something I have heavily read into over the years.

I am always surprised on how little powers that Scottish police officers actually have, like only having the powers of arrest after authority has been given etc, its all in the wording. PSoS constables have less powers against civilians than English police officers, one of the strangest thing though is in Scotland a police officer on a night out does not have to make you aware that he/she is an off duty officer when they enter say a nightclub but in England they are supposed to, not that they always do though.

Slightly rusty but:

In relation to common law cautions, as you said on a previous post - it’s nothing to do with anything that ‘goes on your record’ (in Scotland).

You will be cautioned (common law caution) prior to detentions for searches (like drugs searches) as well as pre arrest (no detentions for investigating crime now, only for searches), pre interview, pre charge.

These seem to get confused with England as what they, maybe do, or historically used the term ‘police caution’ for A police slap on the wrist which used to be classed as a ‘warning’ or ‘official warning’ (or some such thing) in Scotland but I think these are no more.

There are the likes of ‘Involuntary Exclamations’ which can be admissible (usually in serious crimes) when made by a witness/suspect/accused without the ‘common law caution’ being administered.

There are common law powers of arrest, statutory powers of arrest - all criminal law is common law or statutory.

I don’t know what you mean ‘charged by a rank above inspector’ as anyone Constable rank and above can charge you for any crime in Scotland. I think you may be getting confused with extensions to the arrest procedure. Really your not ‘charged’ until the COPFS says you are either as they may put a pen through it if they deem the evidence insufficient.

Powers of arrest do not need to have ‘authority’, they need to be either common law or statutory law as already mentioned which gives the power of arrest. There are few crimes without a power of arrest in Scotland but vandalism would be an example.

In relation to ‘less powers’ than in England that is pretty much all to do with powers of entry without warrant etc, which in fact can be done but relevant warrants have to be craved retrospectively prior to certain courses of action being carried out.

Back to the OP, phone a solicitor (the one mentioned several times on the thread is who I would contact) prior to Plod turning up and they will advise you what to do/say.

 

[tozzybum]

Good luck ,go legal and no comment ,police are stuffed either way ,she made a formal complaint you were piggy in the middle and as your son,s ex an easy target .But they cant ignore any complaint so ignore us all and get a good criminal lawyer atb

 

[Dan Newcombe]

I’d say that stopping going out for a drink or stoping helping anyone is a bit extreme just because you have firearms certificates.

If all that happened was indeed what has been told in the first post then he should be fine, he was acting in the interest of public safety and he actually got assaulted (although that’s not actually a defence, just a different offence) - he did nothing wrong so should get his guns back ASAP and be on his way unless there is a history of this sort of thing happening etc.

 

[User00003]

OP is probably unable to further comment from solitary confinement with water boarding breaks

 

[Oracle]

Oracle, i don't think yo can use breach of the peace in this instance as it is after the fact and he hasn't been arrested. In any case i would be interested if you could show me the part in Common Law that gives you the right to seize property. Arrest, yes enter premises, yes; but seize property?

F

Frank, I cannot show you any part within Common Law regarding seizure of property, however, in respect of seizure of firearms, would suspect it is closely linked into the public safety aspect. As in my previous post, the power under Common Law widely used by licensing authorities, dependent what area of the UK the licensing authority has jurisdiction in. They can use other powers of seizure, but it is all dependent on individual circumstances of the incident/investigation and the officer seizing would have to record their rationale and decision making processes as to what power they used and why. It may well be that licensing authorities are now making the move to fast track revocations under the Firearms Act, however this would seem to me to extreme in the early stages of an investigation when the full facts surrounding the ongoing investigation/incident are still unknown.

 

[Frank Homes]

Frank, I cannot show you any part within Common Law regarding seizure of property, however, in respect of seizure of firearms, would suspect it is closely linked into the public safety aspect. As in my previous post, the power under Common Law widely used by licensing authorities, dependent what area of the UK the licensing authority has jurisdiction in. They can use other powers of seizure, but it is all dependent on individual circumstances of the incident/investigation and the officer seizing would have to record their rationale and decision making processes as to what power they used and why. It may well be that licensing authorities are now making the move to fast track revocations under the Firearms Act, however this would seem to me to extreme in the early stages of an investigation when the full facts surrounding the ongoing investigation/incident are still unknown.

Oracle,
What other powers of seizure?As i see it the only power of seizure comes under S.12 FA 1988 following revocation, so you either surrender voluntarily or insist that if the officers wish to remove the firearms they issue you with a letter of revocation. Too often i have heard of firearms being seized in arbitrary circumstances only for the owner to struggle to ever get them returned. I agree that it is not always in your interests to be obstructive, every situation is different but with revocation comes a right of appeal and a defined legal position not some limbo of eternal legal wrangling.

F

 

[Smelly Yeti]

Sorry to hear this and hope it all goes away as quickly as it appeared.

 

[Cloudhopper]

What a wonderful country we live in isn’t it!

You've obviously never experienced the Family Courts then.....
CH

 

[kes]

Any more news Mossypaw -Trust all is going well?

 

[Mossypaw]

Any more news Mossypaw -Trust all is going well?

Nothing happening at all. No word from the police. Waiting for a return call from SACS for advice.

 

[CarlW]

Nothing happening at all. No word from the police. Waiting for a return call from SACS for advice.

We're with you all the way.
Kind regards,
Carl

 

[Mossypaw]

Thought I might brighten up this thread with a photo of my billet the night before the pub. One of the most remote houses in the UK. Peace, quiet and not a care in the world. What a difference a day makes. Wish I’d stayed longer !

 

[shakey jake]

have faith in the law mate, i got attacked the guy lied and said i started it, tell the truth dont get caught out by the coppers asking you trick questions, stick to facts. even if the witnesses arent on your side they wont know the lies she has told. it will get sorted
shakey

 

[Highlandsjohn]

Lovely itll be back to normal soon. Take care..

 

[kes]

I suppose that with some bad luck should come some good - the place in the photo is stunning - just the place for a dram outside as the sun goes down.

 

[pop1]

Nothing happening at all. No word from the police. Waiting for a return call from SACS for advice.

The fact your having to wait for a return call on something do serious is a worry!! Did they get back to you?? And phone David McKie, you may well get your firearms back a hell of a lot sooner

 

[kes]

The fact your having to wait for a return call on something do serious is a worry!! Did they get back to you?? And phone David McKie, you may well get your firearms back a hell of a lot sooner

It may be that the police feel that, although they acted as they believe they had to, they have little credibility for the other party's complaint.
I would hope they are exploring that in some detail and without further ado will return Mossypaw's guns with 'advice' much like that above about 'getting involved'.
I dont feel a delay is a sign of a problem - rather the reverse - he could have been arrested by now if the police thought there was anything at all in the story from the sons ex.
Still on the bright side.