what i find disturbing about some posts is the willingness of some to just roll over and let the police do what they want .if you dont want them to come in dont let them in and say make an appointment please.(its not for the police to make it up as we go along) its the goverment that make the law not the police. their job is to enforce the law.once the police find no resistance to them doing this outher police forces will start. some will feel intimedated by the demand to inspect your guns and the refusal to let them in will put them in the spotlight when renewell time comes round. some years ago i had an issue with a FLO over my gun cabinet he said it was not (secure enough 3mm all welded 2x5 lever locks and welded chain through triggar guards with padlock and bolted to wall) you need to buy a new one why i ask because i say so is the reply and if you want to argue it will take far longer for your renewal to come. right i said if thats what you want i will go round and see my mp about this and your chife constable will get a letter as well .with that he produced my fac from his case and handed it over( just trying it on like north wales police.)
Police spot checks
- Thread starter Si
- Start date
Power trips!............. Just remembered, the term "Public Servant" comes to mind, SHeesh!.
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This from my mates wife who is a serving WPC: the very act of refusing to comply with a police officers request can be construed as an offence in itself leading the officer to conclude that another offence may be about to be committed in which case entry to your property must be allowed when requested.
In other words "when they want to!"
Ian.
In other words "when they want to!"
Ian.
jamross65
Well-Known Member
Not when it comes to the power of entry it doesn't relative to this thread.
I think you need to go back and tell your mates wife to have another wee look at the books before she gets herself in bother when trying to carry out her duties with that interpretation of law.
I know things differ in England but I am fairly confident that even south of the border a person does not exude guilt by refusing to allow a police officer entry to their home when the only right to enter is by request and then permission from the occupier!
There are several reasons for a police officer being allowed to enter, warrant, 'hot pursuit' of someone who has committed a serious crime, to quell a disturbance and several others. Your mates wife has not given one of them as a reason...
Bandit Country
Well-Known Member
Confirming once again that (far too many?) police officers don't have a firm grasp of the law. Of course quite a few FAC holders know that from first hand experience.....
Si
Well-Known Member
Would your friends wife be willing to come up with written evidence that these unannounced searches are legal? I would be very interested.
So at some point they will knock on a house when you are out but the wife is in, you are out shooting so wife is in bad mood anyway, they time the knock on the door just as she has got into the shower = less than impressed wife on your return....double whammy
or if you are unlucky she knew where your keys were and lets them in to open the safe and have a look.....ALL DOWN HILL from there.
or if you are unlucky she knew where your keys were and lets them in to open the safe and have a look.....ALL DOWN HILL from there.
ths84
Well-Known Member
We no longer have local bobbies they are all up from the other towns so if it started up down here I'd politely tell them to jog on unless it was the ARU tasked to do it!
I don't see what a local bobby who has possibly had no involvement with firearms at any point in their life would understand what they are looking at and what is what when it comes to checking what you have against your ticket!
I don't see what a local bobby who has possibly had no involvement with firearms at any point in their life would understand what they are looking at and what is what when it comes to checking what you have against your ticket!
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
!! How do we not know that that is not in the "unofficial" training manual!! Seriously though this question arose during a phone conversation with my shooting buddy, he then shouted to his mrs " how do you access someones property without a warrant when they wont let you in?"Basically post 43 was her answer, the legality of the situation was not mentioned.
Ian.
varmint223
Well-Known Member
Make more sence to me for them to turn up at the address of every known burglar and give their house the once over...
Oh!!!! but that might infringe their rights and be seen as harrasement
Yeh spot on there pheasant sniper well said
Well, I've just been Spot Checked!
It was the local bobby from the station in the village, someone I recognised by sight, (but not who I've had dealings with) so I knew he was genuine.
He was quick to stress that this was entirely voluntary - if I didn't want to let him in I didn't have to.
The reason behind it (apparently) is that there were 2 incidents of burglary in the area last year where the victim's own guns had been used by the burglars, so therefore obviously hadn't been correctly secured. (One of these incidents I was aware of already).
I let him read the letter we'd had from BASC, which basically explained why we shouldn't let him in, and pointed out that he should have made an appointment. He offered to go away and come back later, if I would be happier with that.
In the end (as he was a decent bloke) I made a compromise - showed him where my cabinets are, and that they were locked and securely fastened to the wall, but refused to go through all the rigamarole of getting guns out, checking serial numbers etc.
The chap who came was familiar with the SGC rules etc, but freely admitted that he didn't know anything about FAC.
It was the local bobby from the station in the village, someone I recognised by sight, (but not who I've had dealings with) so I knew he was genuine.
He was quick to stress that this was entirely voluntary - if I didn't want to let him in I didn't have to.
The reason behind it (apparently) is that there were 2 incidents of burglary in the area last year where the victim's own guns had been used by the burglars, so therefore obviously hadn't been correctly secured. (One of these incidents I was aware of already).
I let him read the letter we'd had from BASC, which basically explained why we shouldn't let him in, and pointed out that he should have made an appointment. He offered to go away and come back later, if I would be happier with that.
In the end (as he was a decent bloke) I made a compromise - showed him where my cabinets are, and that they were locked and securely fastened to the wall, but refused to go through all the rigamarole of getting guns out, checking serial numbers etc.
The chap who came was familiar with the SGC rules etc, but freely admitted that he didn't know anything about FAC.
Dan Newcombe
Well-Known Member
Why not let them in if you arent hiding anything.
Some people live near to the place where the police are based, i know i dont and its a bigger waste of time making the poor bloke drive over an hour back to then have to come back again another day!
You can always ask if he is technically allowed to just turn up and come in to register that you are in fact doing him a favour.
Ive always wondered how far a policeman would go when they are in the house (say for a renewal) to make sure you arent hiding bullets etc. Will they have a look round and poke in cupboards etc. If they found a stray .22 bullet or a single centrefire round in a jacket pocket would they refuse renewal?
Some people live near to the place where the police are based, i know i dont and its a bigger waste of time making the poor bloke drive over an hour back to then have to come back again another day!
You can always ask if he is technically allowed to just turn up and come in to register that you are in fact doing him a favour.
Ive always wondered how far a policeman would go when they are in the house (say for a renewal) to make sure you arent hiding bullets etc. Will they have a look round and poke in cupboards etc. If they found a stray .22 bullet or a single centrefire round in a jacket pocket would they refuse renewal?
Si
Well-Known Member
That's not the issue Dan.... the point is under current UK law they have no powers to turn up unannounced and carry out a spot check. This is Great Britain 2012, not Germany 1935 under the Gestapo regime.
It seems some folk don't mind giving up the rights that our Grandfathers fought for, but I do
timbrayford
Well-Known Member
I think that you have got to use a bit of commonsense on this. Yes you are quite entitled to tell them when it is not convenient and to make a proper appointment, on the otherhand the caller could be a local crime prevention officer alerting you to criminal activity in the area who is trying to help you from becoming the next victim. atb Tim
I'm not certain about that either, they have no more rights of entry than anyone else, and would likely shoot themselves in the foot with whatever is in your cabinet.
Although it has to be said, if they are pointing the MP5 at your chest you're probably in mortal danger already from a negligent discharge, so why not let them shoot themselves in the foot with the contents of your cabinet.
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