sikastag270
Well-Known Member
out
Poll
- Thread starter JAYB
- Start date
deeangeo
Well-Known Member
And the date to get out is Thursday 23rd June 2016
I would, personally prefer to be "European". However I cannot accept that European laws, directives et al are brought into law by the unelected. The really worrying thing is that although the EU Government is run by people appointed by the elected heads of individual governments , there is no direct access to them by the electorate. Even those prime ministers etc that placed people on the EU parliament cannot politically override them. Now that the core EU policymakers, financiers and the judiciary are in place they have literally become autonomous. Put simply, the decisions being made in Brussels are not made with the blessing of those who elected their leaders as the EU is not answerable to them. Most worrying of all Is that it is not within a European citizens' power to deselect any of them using the democratic process. Those who are for or against EU exit are not divided by left or right wing politics
I'd be very curious to see whether those who were so vocal in criticising or mocking the SNP are now equally keen to vote out.
It's unclear that the case for leaving the EU is any stronger than it was for leaving the UK. Both appeal more to emotion than logic, and both are using the larger body as a scapegoat for home grown failings.
It's unclear that the case for leaving the EU is any stronger than it was for leaving the UK. Both appeal more to emotion than logic, and both are using the larger body as a scapegoat for home grown failings.
deeangeo
Well-Known Member
The SNP & Labour parties describe themselves as 'Socialist' party's. The fact is they are both Communist party's using the word socialst as a 'nicer' description of their communist policies.
They are both parties that think the world owes them a living & discover when in power their spending has to be paid for...so they borrow at taxpayers expense.
The SNP I think mislead their voters believing the EU wants the Scots in Europe and the single currency will be granted to them should they leave this Great British union. Well, should that ever happen my belief is the SNP will have a rude awakening.
British nationals under the age of 40, 50 really, have no idea what it is like to live as an independent country. As an EU mamber country we have to abide by laws and controls dictated by many unelected politicians most of whom are 'career' politicians and have never lived life as an employee or had/developed their own company or even served in the armed forces. Yet we are to believe their interference in our own laws/legislation/border controls and umpteen other aspects where the EU interferes with our own 'buck stops' is better for us.
Well, my view is no - we in Great Britain should have control over our own Nationals and be an independent country once again.
Geograhically we are a part of Europe and that can never be changed. Our own trade agreements should be without restriction and as before, we will prosper.
Our borders and defence of them, will be supported in any event by our long standing membership of NATO and the UN (weak though the UN is) with any argument to the contrary invalid. Intelligence will still be shared 'western world wide' to a greater rather than lesser extent simply for the safety and security of Nationals of all western countrys.
No, I think there's nothing to fear and much to gain by voting out of the EU.
They are both parties that think the world owes them a living & discover when in power their spending has to be paid for...so they borrow at taxpayers expense.
The SNP I think mislead their voters believing the EU wants the Scots in Europe and the single currency will be granted to them should they leave this Great British union. Well, should that ever happen my belief is the SNP will have a rude awakening.
British nationals under the age of 40, 50 really, have no idea what it is like to live as an independent country. As an EU mamber country we have to abide by laws and controls dictated by many unelected politicians most of whom are 'career' politicians and have never lived life as an employee or had/developed their own company or even served in the armed forces. Yet we are to believe their interference in our own laws/legislation/border controls and umpteen other aspects where the EU interferes with our own 'buck stops' is better for us.
Well, my view is no - we in Great Britain should have control over our own Nationals and be an independent country once again.
Geograhically we are a part of Europe and that can never be changed. Our own trade agreements should be without restriction and as before, we will prosper.
Our borders and defence of them, will be supported in any event by our long standing membership of NATO and the UN (weak though the UN is) with any argument to the contrary invalid. Intelligence will still be shared 'western world wide' to a greater rather than lesser extent simply for the safety and security of Nationals of all western countrys.
No, I think there's nothing to fear and much to gain by voting out of the EU.
The main difference is that the UK stand a chance going it alone Scotland didn't stand a snowball in hell's chance
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
Minimum wage levels are about to rise which should help with this problem. I also believe that those claiming dole money that are able to work should be 'encouraged' into such jobs before gaining such funds. Maybe a scheme where the business and government could part-fund labour, filling undesirable posts with a pool of manpower that currently get given money for nothing! Many of those would then even make a bit more effort to find a real job too!
Giving people money for nothing because they are simply too lazy to do certain jobs is not really acceptable in my view - especially when it is me that is paying for it!!
MS
provide 57% of our trade,
structrural funding to areas hit by industrial decline
clean beaches and rivers
restrictions on landfill dumping
lead free petrol
cleaner air
a recycling culture
cheaper mobile charges
cheaper air travel
improved consumer protection and food labeling
a ban on growth hormone and other harmful food additives
better product safety
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance
break up of monopolies
European wide patent and copyright protection
no paper work or customs for export throughout the single market
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone
freedom to travel and work across Europe
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad
access to European health services
labour protection and enhanced social welfare
smoke free work places
equal pay legislation
holiday entitlement
the right to not have to work more than 48 hours a week without overtime
strongest wildlife protection in the world
improved animal welfare in food production
EU funded research and industrial collaberation
European arrest warrant
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, counter terrorism intelligence
European civil and military co operation in post conflict zones in Europe and Africa
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards
These are a few of the things we gained by being in the European Union, some might argue with some of them but still a pretty impressive list.
No the EU is not perfect and perhaps we can have some influence as a member we can have none as outsiders.
We also have had 60 years free of war in Europe due to the Union
The above is why I and the majority of Scots are likely to vote to stay in.
structrural funding to areas hit by industrial decline
clean beaches and rivers
restrictions on landfill dumping
lead free petrol
cleaner air
a recycling culture
cheaper mobile charges
cheaper air travel
improved consumer protection and food labeling
a ban on growth hormone and other harmful food additives
better product safety
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance
break up of monopolies
European wide patent and copyright protection
no paper work or customs for export throughout the single market
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone
freedom to travel and work across Europe
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad
access to European health services
labour protection and enhanced social welfare
smoke free work places
equal pay legislation
holiday entitlement
the right to not have to work more than 48 hours a week without overtime
strongest wildlife protection in the world
improved animal welfare in food production
EU funded research and industrial collaberation
European arrest warrant
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, counter terrorism intelligence
European civil and military co operation in post conflict zones in Europe and Africa
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards
These are a few of the things we gained by being in the European Union, some might argue with some of them but still a pretty impressive list.
No the EU is not perfect and perhaps we can have some influence as a member we can have none as outsiders.
We also have had 60 years free of war in Europe due to the Union
The above is why I and the majority of Scots are likely to vote to stay in.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Yeah but apart from all of that, what has the Treaty of Rome ever done for us?
A snowball's chance in Hell comes to mind.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
Monkey Spanker
Well-Known Member
The funny thing about the SNP is that a lot of their policies are not socialist; they are a populist party, trying to appeal to the emotions and blaming all ills on "Westmonster" despite making a very good job of screwing up the things that they complete power over all by themselves. They talk about Tory austerity being evil but despite having the powers to increase taxation they choose not to (at the moment). I'm old fashioned enough to believe that you don't spend money that you don't have, so either the SNP have to increase tax or accept that cuts have to be made. They choose to leave direct taxation alone whilst just whining about cuts and appear to get off with it, despite the Scottish Labour party committing to increasing tax by 1p should they win the vote in May.
Would the Scots be welcomed into Europe with open arms if there was ever separation? They would possibly be allowed in, but would have to accept the Euro and ever closer integration. In the referendum debate last year Alex Salmond appeared to say that the Scots would be welcomed in to the EU but that we would also continue to use the pound AND have power over the fiscal policy of the pound. Not a chance. Why would the rest of the UK accept the Scots making demands in fiscal policy that affected them after breakup? It would be like the Portuguese telling the Spanish what to do with their interest rates - it just wouldn't happen.
howa243
Well-Known Member
I find it odd that anybody would imagine that much of this would not have been enacted domestically without the need for the EU. We were not an uncivilised country before 1975 if I recall. Indeed quite a number of our European brethren operated under autocratic regimes within recent memory, so I am not sure how much we have to learn about democracy and freedom. That's not to say that we are perfect but its embarrassing to imagine that we cannot look beyond our shores and learn from what we see.
As for investment if we are saving the membership fees then I guess we would have it to spend.
Pine Marten
Well-Known Member
And the fact that it was to a great degree the pull of the EU that made them transition to democracy in record time is one of the strongest arguments in favour of the EU you could make. It's a supra-national polity that countries choose to join, which is pretty unique and spectacular, for all its' shortcomings.
howa243
Well-Known Member
There are many arguments for the EU and there would be even more if were reformed. There is no need for both Strasburg and Brussels, the auditors will not sign off the accounts, money goes missing with regular monotony. We all know that the bigger a bureaucracy becomes the more inefficient and corrupt it becomes too. I consider myself to be European and think that this is an opportunity to really reform the EU so that it enjoys a re-birth as something less oppressive and more democratic.
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
I agree that it should be reformed, but I can't see any real opportunity to do so. The timeframe is now way too short and I'm not convinced that there is a will to do so.
Previous posters have mentioned that they consider themselves to be European.
I have never considered myself to be European. I'm British, was Scottish before the nats stole the flag and made an embarrassment of the place.
But I'll never, ever be European.
I understand the benefits of alignment to those countries sharing land borders, and ever greater harmonization. But I do think we've forgotten that we are a great country all by ourselves. We are a core member of NATO, who do far more for our and europes security than Europe has done or will ever do.
I have never considered myself to be European. I'm British, was Scottish before the nats stole the flag and made an embarrassment of the place.
But I'll never, ever be European.
I understand the benefits of alignment to those countries sharing land borders, and ever greater harmonization. But I do think we've forgotten that we are a great country all by ourselves. We are a core member of NATO, who do far more for our and europes security than Europe has done or will ever do.
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