Poll

[deerpath]

Out.

 

[JTO]

I agree that it should be reformed, but I can't see any real opportunity to do so. The timeframe is now way too short and I'm not convinced that there is a will to do so.

+1. If it was possible to have any influence and achieve any reform at all from within the EU, Cameron would have achieved it during the last week.

 

[Pine Marten]

Thought this could do with an injection of lightness although actually, the quality of discussion seems to be improving slowly.



David Cameron in a nightclub:
"It's crap here. The music's rubbish. Entrance is really expensive. It stinks. It's too busy. The drinks are warm. It's too hot. The girls are minging. The decor's dire. And you're all bad dancers.
...

What will you give me if I stay?"

 

[Cut+Squirt]

Ordinarily I would be voting out, but will be voting tactically yes in the hope an English out vote is the catalyst for a second independence referendum.

 

[JockStalk]

Ordinarily I would be voting out, but will be voting tactically yes in the hope an English out vote is the catalyst for a second independence referendum.

So you get to be in an independent Scotland AND in the Eurozone?

 

[rover]

Out Out Out

 

[Pine Marten]

Out Out Out

IN IN IN times Infinity plus one! HA!

OK, OK, I know, playground politics, sorry....

 

[JTO]

Nice to see this thread being constantly brought back to the top.

 

[patrickt]

Besides the money actually paid to the EU, don't forget to add all the money that the economic migrants are sending out of the country. About 6 years ago, I so a figure of £2.3Bn that was going to Poland alone. Then there is all that is sent back to Romania by the Big Issue sellers.

will this also apply to other foreign free loaders when and if Turkey joins the EU, these free loaders will then be free unhindered to travel through Turkey.... next stop UK!!! and possibly in the hundred of thousands

 

[Pine Marten]

So what? They do their jobs, earn their pay, pay their taxes, and then they can do whatever they want with their earnings, same as everyone else, no? What's the problem?

 

[Mick9abf]

Ordinarily I would be voting out, but will be voting tactically yes in the hope an English out vote is the catalyst for a second independence referendum.

There will be no basis for a grievance if the majority of Scots vote out although I'm sure the SNP will manage to find something as majorities only matter to them if they are on the winning side.

That said I wouldn't be bothered as I don't think another referendum would go in favour of independence as the SNP's sums simply don't add up and more people voted in the referendum than ever will in SG elections. The added bonus would be they would have nowhere to go post result.

 

[waterford103]

I will vote out and stuff the Scottish Numpty Party . I want out from under the heel of the non elected , corrupt Gauleiters in Brussels , they might need us but we certainly don't need them.

 

[Cloudhopper]

provide 57% of our trade,
structrural funding to areas hit by industrial decline
clean beaches and rivers
restrictions on landfill dumping
lead free petrol
cleaner air
a recycling culture
cheaper mobile charges
cheaper air travel
improved consumer protection and food labeling
a ban on growth hormone and other harmful food additives
better product safety
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance
break up of monopolies
European wide patent and copyright protection
no paper work or customs for export throughout the single market
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone
freedom to travel and work across Europe
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad
access to European health services
labour protection and enhanced social welfare
smoke free work places
equal pay legislation
holiday entitlement
the right to not have to work more than 48 hours a week without overtime
strongest wildlife protection in the world
improved animal welfare in food production
EU funded research and industrial collaberation
European arrest warrant
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling, counter terrorism intelligence
European civil and military co operation in post conflict zones in Europe and Africa
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards"

During the years we've been tied into the EU we would have developed. There's nothing to say this list wouldn't be longer if our politicians had kept us out.
CH

 

[375 mag]

Out

 

[Bandit Country]

These are a few of the things we gained by being in the European Union, some might argue with some of them but still a pretty impressive list.
We also have had 60 years free of war in Europe due to the Union

I'd argue with just about each and everyone of them and could generate an equally 'impressive' list of negative effects. You're final sentence is pretty typical of the misinformation circulating in this debate. The 'Union' you refer to didn't exist 60 years ago - it only came into existence (as the European Community) in 1993. To infer that Europe's 'freedom from war' is a result of EU membership is, frankly, delusional.

 

[willie_gunn]

price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone

......

These are a few of the things we gained by being in the European Union, some might argue with some of them but still a pretty impressive list.

......

The above is why I and the majority of Scots are likely to vote to stay in.

I could indeed put up an argument against many of the "benefits" you've listed, but humour me if I pick just this one for the moment.

The key phrase in this benefit is "across the eurozone", as it only applies if you adopt the Euro. I spend much of my working week in Europe.....where complaints and worries about the crisis in the Eurozone have not gone away.

Having argued until they were blue in the face during Indy1 that leaving the UK would not require Scotland to ditch the Pound and adopt the Euro, if the UK votes to leave on 23 June the SNP say this will trigger another referendum where the Scottish can vote to ditch the Pound and adopt the Euro.

Scotland would then become an independent country, but without it's own currency and without full fiscal autonomy.....which Sturgeon and Swinney have just spent a year arguing was so important that not to have it would break the "vow".

The hypocrisy of it all is beyond breathtaking!

 

[McKenzie]

I could indeed put up an argument against many of the "benefits" you've listed, but humour me if I pick just this one for the moment.

The key phrase in this benefit is "across the eurozone", as it only applies if you adopt the Euro. I spend much of my working week in Europe.....where complaints and worries about the crisis in the Eurozone have not gone away.

Having argued until they were blue in the face during Indy1 that leaving the UK would not require Scotland to ditch the Pound and adopt the Euro, if the UK votes to leave on 23 June the SNP say this will trigger another referendum where the Scottish can vote to ditch the Pound and adopt the Euro.

Scotland would then become an independent country, but without it's own currency and without full fiscal autonomy.....which Sturgeon and Swinney have just spent a year arguing was so important that not to have it would break the "vow".

The hypocrisy of it all is beyond breathtaking!

The irony of this hasn't been lost on me.

 

[jimmy milnes]

Still very much undecided
BUT
I've tried to talk to as many folk as possible in order to try to make the best choice I can as for many various reasons I'd say 95% want out so maybe a landslide vote.
Regards
Jimmy

 

[deeangeo]

Wars - So Croatia,Serbia, Yugoslavia are not geographically in Europe ?
Not to mention the Falklands, which although did not take place in Europe, certainly involved GB and of course it was France that supplied Argentina with Super Etandarts & Exocet missiles.

 

[deeangeo]

The funny thing about the SNP is that a lot of their policies are not socialist; they are a populist party, trying to appeal to the emotions and blaming all ills on "Westmonster" despite making a very good job of screwing up the things that they complete power over all by themselves. They talk about Tory austerity being evil but despite having the powers to increase taxation they choose not to (at the moment). I'm old fashioned enough to believe that you don't spend money that you don't have, so either the SNP have to increase tax or accept that cuts have to be made. They choose to leave direct taxation alone whilst just whining about cuts and appear to get off with it, despite the Scottish Labour party committing to increasing tax by 1p should they win the vote in May.
Would the Scots be welcomed into Europe with open arms if there was ever separation? They would possibly be allowed in, but would have to accept the Euro and ever closer integration. In the referendum debate last year Alex Salmond appeared to say that the Scots would be welcomed in to the EU but that we would also continue to use the pound AND have power over the fiscal policy of the pound. Not a chance. Why would the rest of the UK accept the Scots making demands in fiscal policy that affected them after breakup? It would be like the Portuguese telling the Spanish what to do with their interest rates - it just wouldn't happen.

They (SNP/Labour) all derive from the Trotskyite camp of followers and are indeed Communist utilising what are populist ideas to achieve their nonsensical political aims. The Eu are unlikely to grant Euro currency to an unsupported independent Scotland and so Scotland would in the event of becoming independent continue to use a 'controlled' Great British £.