Recoil Management

[Heym SR20]

Recoil Management. There are endless discussions on “my rifle won’t group”. And I have seen people go through the doom loop of constantly changing rifles and adding yet more gear to try and make them shoot better.

There seems to be a big trend towards heavy rifles with light recoiling cartridges where recoil is a non issue. You set the rifle on bags and a little whisper touch on the trigger and tiny little group. I think PCP air rifles have a lot to answer for.

Yet most stalking rifles have a reasonable level of recoil, and are light enough that you do need manage this. Video shows this in stark reality. My two take aways are

1) hold the rifle with a firm handshake type grip, and squeeze like a handshake. Not something limp wristed.

2) most of us are happy with a 12 bore. Most shotguns have more recoil than a rifle. And have you ever been really hurt by recoil. I think we have all had a bit of red ness or black bruising, worse still a whack in the eye with a scope.

Have a watch - some good hints and tips.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I wouldn't blame air rifles. I suspect it is simply because most of us don't do enough shooting with our stalking rifles due to limited access, time, and funds. That said, learning the physical and mental techniques required for consistent shooting is essential, regardless of how much trigger time one enjoys.

 

[Heym SR20]

I wouldn't blame air rifles. I suspect it is simply because most of us don't do enough shooting with our stalking rifles due to limited access, time, and funds. That said, learning the physical and mental techniques required for consistent shooting is essential, regardless of how much trigger time one enjoys.

A PCP has no recoil to speak of and is very easy to shoot well regardless of how you hold it.. A spring powered air rifle such as the HW35, 80, BSA Airsporter etc has enough recoil, jump, vibration and lock time etc that good consistent recoil management is essential to get good results.

I would suggest that a decent spring powered air rifle is a very good training tool for a centre fire stalking rifle. By decent I am thinking the Weirauch etc as opposed to Chineseum rubbish.

And far too much emphasis is made of shooting tiny little groups. Instead what is required is hitting a tennis ball, or clay pigeon sized target with just a few seconds to get a solid position, check its safe, part of the cull and squeeze off a shot and all whilst its blowing a gale and ****ing with rain.

 

[User00056]

That flinch-control technique is pretty good!

 

[Loler UK]

That flinch-control technique is pretty good!

We have dummy rounds loaded so can load a whole mag mixed, only downside is if they cheat and look for the dented primer on the reload.

Also makes sure students have good hang fire discipline

 

[Mr. Gain]

A PCP has no recoil to speak of and is very easy to shoot well regardless of how you hold it.. A spring powered air rifle such as the HW35, 80, BSA Airsporter etc has enough recoil, jump, vibration and lock time etc that good consistent recoil management is essential to get good results.

I would suggest that a decent spring powered air rifle is a very good training tool for a centre fire stalking rifle. By decent I am thinking the Weirauch etc as opposed to Chineseum rubbish.

And far too much emphasis is made of shooting tiny little groups. Instead what is required is hitting a tennis ball, or clay pigeon sized target with just a few seconds to get a solid position, check its safe, part of the cull and squeeze off a shot and all whilst its blowing a gale and ****ing with rain.

I agree, so long as we're saying that a springer is better than a PCP for practising to shoot a stalking rifle, and not better for hunting small game; and that shooting tiny groups is essential for airgun hunting to a degree that it is not when stalking.

 

[Heym SR20]

I agree, so long as we're saying that a springer is better than a PCP for practising to shoot a stalking rifle, and not better for hunting small game; and that shooting tiny groups is essential for airgun hunting to a degree that it is not when stalking.

Yes I am saying a Springer is a much better training rifle for a stalking rifle. And to be honest a springer is a perfectly good rifle for hunting, and perfectly capable of shooting little groups. You just have to learn how to shoot them.

Most of us who grew up in the 80’s and 90’s learnt to shoot and hunt rabbits etc with springers - and provided you had a decent one never found the lacking in accuracy department provided you controlled the recoil. We didn’t have PCPs. The closest we had were pump up pneumatics such as the Beeman or Crossman. They required 5 or so pumps for each shot.

I have taught a few novices to shoot over the last few years. Worst have been those who have used PCPs - they seem to have little concept of needing to control a rifle and get hugely frustrated when they are unable to get tiny little groups with a stalking rifle when using the same techniques.

 

[Mr. Gain]

I also grew up hunting with springers in the '80s. I was out doing that almost every day, before, after, or instead of school, and got quite good at it, but I would not see them as the best tool for that job today.

 

[angusb1]

I grew up shooting springers in the 80s and always hated the way they move so much before the pellet left the barrel. I shot 303s and 308s at the same age much better and still do now. I am happy to shoot rifles with a fair amount of recoil, in fact I quite like shooting guns with hefty recoil. I now own a 7mm Rem Mag and a 35 Whelen as well as a 270, but I still dislike shooting springers and recently bought a PCP which I really like. I also shoot a 12 bore and actually I think a 12 bore is the best way to teach people how to manage recoil as it is loud as well and this is partly why people develop a flinch.

Excellent video. I really enjoyed it and there is a lot of good advice in there.

 

[Pedro]

Yes, shotguns, especially with reasonably big game cartridges have a good deal of recoil. Although their recoil is pretty emphatic, I suspect that a rifle's recoil is more immediate. Talking about milliseconds probably though But do some clay shooting and you'll soon learn to have the gun (or rifle) in the correct shoulder position or you'll end up with bruising.

I've just bought a Jungle Carbine. So when I eventually drag that to the range it'll likely be a fair test of how I deal with recoil I suspect.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Not a bad video. But given they shoot without mods there- and often use v light rifles for climbing up mountains all day- it's no wonder recoil is a bigger issue.

Does anyone know how significant shooters bodyweight is to recoil ? Does a 12 stone shooter feel it more than an 18 stone one ?

The height and shape of the comb is a v interesting one. I have heard the sloped comb design is def worse.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

A PCP has no recoil to speak of and is very easy to shoot well regardless of how you hold it.. A spring powered air rifle such as the HW35, 80, BSA Airsporter etc has enough recoil, jump, vibration and lock time etc that good consistent recoil management is essential to get good results.

I would suggest that a decent spring powered air rifle is a very good training tool for a centre fire stalking rifle. By decent I am thinking the Weirauch etc as opposed to Chineseum rubbish.

And far too much emphasis is made of shooting tiny little groups. Instead what is required is hitting a tennis ball, or clay pigeon sized target with just a few seconds to get a solid position, check its safe, part of the cull and squeeze off a shot and all whilst its blowing a gale and ****ing with rain.

Personally I don't rate spring air rifles as a training tool. The technique is quite different to powder burners IMO. Not to say it's a waste of time. But there are better uses of one's time IMO.

Firstly you can't shoot spring rifles off a bipod or sticks. So IMO they don't carry over well to typical stalking situations.

Second- the very light artillery hold and super gentle cradling of a springer is quite different to a powder burner.

My experience of springers (and I love them!)- is that they reward a light gentle and very consistent hold. Even slight adjustments to grip position can really affect the point of impact. They are hold sensitive. The moving internals in different directions etc- with a v slow pellet that's influenced by this recoil- can be infuriating. And IMO many of the techniques of a springer don't carry over that well to firearms. Also the recoil is so small it doesn't help prevent a flinch. And they are quiet. You don't even need them in your shoulder- you can shoot them however you wish- provided you are consistent- they will usually group.

My experience of powder burners is they aren't that hold sensitive at all. You can set them up with a bipod, sticks etc and they group the same regardless (assuming you don't have a super bendy crappy stock).

Totally agree with your last paragraph about chasing little groups etc

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

I agree, so long as we're saying that a springer is better than a PCP for practising to shoot a stalking rifle, and not better for hunting small game; and that shooting tiny groups is essential for airgun hunting to a degree that it is not when stalking.

Totally agree. Putting a pellet in a squirrels brain at 30 yards is harder than a chest shot deer at 100 yards IMO.

 

[Pete6.5]

Why do we have to put up with excessive recoil if we don't have to.

 

[ColinJ]

Why do we have to put up with excessive recoil if we don't have to.

Depends what your quarry is. I love my 6.5x55, but I wouldn’t use it for buffalo.

 

[moeggesit]

Recoil Management. There are endless discussions on “my rifle won’t group”. And I have seen people go through the doom loop of constantly changing rifles and adding yet more gear to try and make them shoot better.

There seems to be a big trend towards heavy rifles with light recoiling cartridges where recoil is a non issue. You set the rifle on bags and a little whisper touch on the trigger and tiny little group. I think PCP air rifles have a lot to answer for.

Yet most stalking rifles have a reasonable level of recoil, and are light enough that you do need manage this. Video shows this in stark reality. My two take aways are

1) hold the rifle with a firm handshake type grip, and squeeze like a handshake. Not something limp wristed.

2) most of us are happy with a 12 bore. Most shotguns have more recoil than a rifle. And have you ever been really hurt by recoil. I think we have all had a bit of red ness or black bruising, worse still a whack in the eye with a scope.

Have a watch - some good hints and tips.

You would first have to explain to a lot of people what a handshake like grip is

Majority nowadays seems to think it’s that limp handholding ritual.

Spring air rifles is arguably the best training rifle you can get. It teaches the importance of consistency and holding through the shot. If you can shoot a springer well you can shoot anything well.

It is important not to develop a flinch and even experienced shots sometimes have to retrain after years of excessive exposure. A mild caliber shot well is better than any large calibre.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Spring air rifles is arguably the best training rifle you can get. It teaches the importance of consistency and holding through the shot. If you can shoot a springer well you can shoot anything well.

See my comments above but I really don't think that's true.

You could shoot a springer well by barely holding the thing but being very consistent as you do it.

How does that help with powder burners ?

If I'm missing something please correct me. I love springers. I have been driven mad by particularly hold sensitive ones. But I don't think they are particularly good training tools. I suppose they are very low maintenance and pretty safe- so good for kids- but if someone genuinely wants to get better at shooting- I don't think a springer would be my first choice.

 

[angusb1]

The best way to learn how to shoot a rifle which recoils is to shoot often with a rifle which recoils. As a kid in the cadets I was shooting .303s and .308s at 14 and I think it was very useful.

 

[moeggesit]

See my comments above but I really don't think that's true.

You could shoot a springer well by barely holding the thing but being very consistent as you do it.

How does that help with powder burners ?

If I'm missing something please correct me. I love springers. I have been driven mad by particularly hold sensitive ones. But I don't think they are particularly good training tools. I suppose they are very low maintenance and pretty safe- so good for kids- but if someone genuinely wants to get better at shooting- I don't think a springer would be my first choice.

Some of the powder burners is equally sensitive to hold, just look at Marlin under levers. If you can shoot something that is sensitive to hold and you are conscious about consistent hold, it helps immensely.

Yes springers barrels jumps all over the place if the barrels touch anything - so does fullbore, best you learn to keep them clear.

You can shoot 2000 shots in your back garden for every 20 shots with full bore.

Springers have a VERY slow lock time (term for comparison) so if you don’t follow through you won’t be able to shoot well. Again not a skill you can learn with the most modern super quick lock time rifles. Yes it’s easy to shoot rifles with a fast lock time but I’ve seen time and time again that when you give someone who only ever learned to shoot fast lock time rifles, they cannot shoot accurately with rifles with a slow lock time (Lee Enfield for instance) and then blame the rifles because the user simply don’t understand the basics of shooting.

Low recoil rifles help fix flinch, yes you can use a 22, but why not a springer?

That does not mean that you can’t learn with a PCP, 22, or fullbore. It’s just that the best training rifle is in my opinion a springer, even after graduation and continuing your skills upkeep. It is certainly not an exclusive training rifle.

You need to practice with your stalking rifle, but I have yet to find someone who would regularly sit through a hundred shots on the range with his 458.

 

[billy_boyle_2010]

Some of the powder burners is equally sensitive to hold, just look at Marlin under levers. If you can shoot something that is sensitive to hold and you are conscious about consistent hold, it helps immensely.

Yes springers barrels jumps all over the place if the barrels touch anything - so does fullbore, best you learn to keep them clear.

You can shoot 2000 shots in your back garden for every 20 shots with full bore.

Springers have a VERY slow lock time (term for comparison) so if you don’t follow through you won’t be able to shoot well. Again not a skill you can learn with the most modern super quick lock time rifles. Yes it’s easy to shoot rifles with a fast lock time but I’ve seen time and time again that when you give someone who only ever learned to shoot fast lock time rifles, they cannot shoot accurately with rifles with a slow lock time (Lee Enfield for instance) and then blame the rifles because the user simply don’t understand the basics of shooting.

Low recoil rifles help fix flinch, yes you can use a 22, but why not a springer?

That does not mean that you can’t learn with a PCP, 22, or fullbore. It’s just that the best training rifle is in my opinion a springer, even after graduation and continuing your skills upkeep. It is certainly not an exclusive training rifle.

You need to practice with your stalking rifle, but I have yet to find someone who would regularly sit through a hundred shots on the range with his 458.

Are marlin underlevers as sensitive to hold as springers? I have never shot one. And I would be willing to bet most UK shooters (whether you shoot rabbit, fox or deer) haven't either- and likely never will.

Agreed touching any barrel is a bad idea. I have never tested how much it affects accuracy at stalking ranges, however.

Yes airguns are cheap to feed. But the question is whether springers in particular are a good training tool. You can shoot PCPs, rimmies etc very cheaply too.

Indeed the springer lock time is awful. It's a real flaw. I don't see how the need to control this really helps people with modern shooting ?

Do those with a flinch really find shooting a springer helps ? If so- I would think other air rifles would also help at least as well- along with rimfires.

The vast majority of quarry shooting in the UK is performed off sticks or bipod. And you can't use either with a springer.

Giving a youngster with all the time in the world the lowest maintenance gun they can get- a springer- is a great idea IMO. But that's only because all they need is pellets.

But as an actual training tool for bigger guns- I don't think the skills the springer teaches (hold sensitivity) is useful as IMO it doesn't carry over well to 99% of UK shooting situations.

I'm not an especially good shot and have had very little in the way of shooting training. Just mucking about as a kid and carried on I have heard for decades how good springers are for teaching- and I have always struggled with the thought process.

Any shooting is good of course and rhe more experience the better. But are springers patticularly good ? I'm not so sure.

Take 2 beginners- identical twins- 1 trains on a springer and one a PCP. Let's assume that the springer twin hadn't quit with frustration after wounding a lot more quarry.

A year later- they swap- sure the pcp twin will hate the springer. The springer twin will love the pcp.

Now who is the better shot with firearms ?