Refusal advice

[SC3]

I wonder if it's worth mentioning, that if I were a danger to the public, then would it not be more likely I'd have made some attempt to cause danger by use of my air rifles? If I've behaved with those, then I'm unlikely to want to gain a certificate to cause danger.

Is that worth mentioning?

 

[andyk]

I think you could benefit from some professional advice on this.

From what you’ve posted, you don’t think there’s anything to go on because it didn’t happen and the police didn’t have any evidence. The police perspective will be different, a Judge has found that, on the balance of probabilities, there was coercive control (which is now viewed, rightly or wrongly, as domestic abuse). That is something for the police to pin their decision on and does give them something.

If you’re serious about getting this overturned, I’d suggest getting a transcript of the Judge’s findings and talking them over with a professional who can advise whether, in light of those findings, there is any chance of convincing a Judge on appeal that you are suitable to be granted and SGC. While I’m not fully up to speed on firearms appeals, I’d expect that any appeal would have to proceed on the basis that the Family Judge’s findings are correct and so whether those findings are sufficiently serious to justify refusal.

One thing which is generally helpful is that a firearms appeal involves the Judge making a fresh decision, it isn’t just deciding whether the police decision is unreasonable.

 

[SC3]

I suspect that route may have costs exceeding what the hobby is worth for me to lose. I know that sounds negative, but that's thousands of pounds before I've even had a decision.

I am not in a financial position to fight this in a court. Family court was a few hundred pounds, literally, but this would run into the thousands, with the prospects of me having to foot the bill of the Police if I do lose.

 

[Tim.243]

I suspect that route may have costs exceeding what the hobby is worth for me to lose. I know that sounds negative, but that's thousands of pounds before I've even had a decision.

I am not in a financial position to fight this in a court. Family court was a few hundred pounds, literally, but this would run into the thousands, with the prospects of me having to foot the bill of the Police if I do lose.

Can it for a while, keep up the clays sort a good routine and have a try in a couple of years.
Best of luck.
Tim

 

[Heym SR20]

Only the OP knows the full details of this case. He will have, or should have, a copy of the Judge’s findings in the family court.

The police will take a view on those findings, especially as to when during the enquiry process they came to light. Were they openly disclosed, or did the police only find post interview?

The Police have to work on balance of probabilities and if there is any question or doubt, they will decline.

 

[SC3]

Only the OP knows the full details of this case. He will have, or should have, a copy of the Judge’s findings in the family court.

The police will take a view on those findings, especially as to when during the enquiry process they came to light. Were they openly disclosed, or did the police only find post interview?

The Police have to work on balance of probabilities and if there is any question or doubt, they will decline.

I do have a copy, but it literally just says that the judge believed that allegation, without any detail of evidence. With the balance of probability, sadly evidence isn't needed. They just choose who they want to believe.

 

[Loler UK]

The police can tell, he wasn't convicted of anything

That's not the way the law works, there are different standards of proof. To be found guilty of DA it would need to be beyond reasonable doubt.
In the event of an appeal it'll be the balance of probabilities so if the judge considers it 50.5% likely that DA took place it'll be lost.
The FA dept only need reasonable grounds of suspicion to refuse an SGC or FAC, as already stated it's easier for them to do that and let a judge decide than take a risk.

 

[Greenmist]

That's not the way the law works, there are different standards of proof. To be found guilty of DA it would need to be beyond reasonable doubt.
In the event of an appeal it'll be the balance of probabilities so if the judge considers it 50.5% likely that DA took place it'll be lost.
The FA dept only need reasonable grounds of suspicion to refuse an SGC or FAC, as already stated it's easier for them to do that and let a judge decide than take a risk.

AS I've already stated, I'm speaking from personal experience of an allegation against me.

 

[Greenmist]

I wonder if it's worth mentioning, that if I were a danger to the public, then would it not be more likely I'd have made some attempt to cause danger by use of my air rifles? If I've behaved with those, then I'm unlikely to want to gain a certificate to cause danger.

Is that worth mentioning?

No, focus on the facts, technically you can be just as dangerous with the contents of your kitchen drawer, your car, your fists, your forehead. Mentioning air rifles will imho be seen as petty and likely cause more harm than good.
I think you have a good case, from what you have said on here, they have made a decision where you weren't even questioned over about the allegation

 

[Pete1774]

So far there's not been any behaviour as such, as nothing had happened, the Police hadn't even made a visit on that basis.

Sadly the judge in family court did make the findings, based on the balance of probability. So basically as my ex made the allegations to the Police, it probably happened. The judge , refused to answer me when I asked for the proof, what did I control and how? Even when I could prove that it's more likely she financially used me (she had a credit card, she would spend, I'd pay it off).

Going off topic a little, but I believe my ex acted under advice - looming family court case, get. some accusations in and make them believable.

So your only "crime" is that of being an involuntary cash machine.

 

[TringSaint]

Hello all. Some months ago I'd put in for a shot gun certificate, a little time went by and I got a call from the firearms enquiry officer, we had a quick chat and he suggested getting a cabinet to speed things up for the interview stage, so I did that.

The interview came and went well. We discussed the process where he said background checks were done before he called me and everything checked out fine. After our sit down chat over coffee he inspected the cabinet and said he's happy to grant the certificate.

Roll on one month later (yesterday), I get a letter from the Police saying that they are refusing my application, because of public safety concerns, relating to domestic abuse allegations made by my ex. Now, the domestic abuse allegations were of 'coercive and financial control' - nothing physical at all. At no point have the police ever visited me about this or made any contact what so ever. I had no knowledge about these allegations until a few years ago when it was brought up at family court. I suspect she made these allegations on advice, to make things more difficult for me at family court.

So, I guess now I'm looking for advice on where to go. Leave it? Appeal? Talk to the enquiry officer again? They literally were allegations with no basis or evidence, that I didn't even know about at the time.

Appealing through the court, likely to cost thousands, before even considering the costs if I lose. It might sound silly but this really has knocked me for six, it's such a stain on my character over allegations which aren't even true.

I can still go to the clay ground as I have been, with my friend, which always was the intention anyway, I'd rather do it with a friend as it's more fun, but in principle I'm really bothered that some allegations, false ones, years ago are what I'm being judged by today.

Any advice welcome. Thanks.

Were there any finding made by a judge in the family court regarding these allegations?
If you are still in the middle of your family court proceedings then you could add these allegations to any fact finding hearing and get the judge to make findings.

Other than that I guess get basc to advise you on how best to tackle this as if the allegations are baseless then it’s a touch unfair, esp if the police have not even spoken with you about this since your ex made the allegations.

 

[gixer1]

Wait a minute? No conviction, an allegation….and people think he should wait a while?

Absolutely not - write a stern letter to the CC stating you have never been convicted of a crime (I assume you have no other record?) and stating that this was an allegation and nothing more and that you should be presumed innocent until charged and convicted of a crime.

I can’t believe people are saying “wait a while” !?!? What a roll over society we are becoming, this is tyrannical and should not effect a SGC application!

If it did then anyone could cause someone to lose certs and not get them back - utter nonsense!

Good luck to the OP, get writing letters!

Regards,
Gixer

 

[Mickeydredd]

Only the OP knows the full details of this case. He will have, or should have, a copy of the Judge’s findings in the family court.

The police will take a view on those findings, especially as to when during the enquiry process they came to light. Were they openly disclosed, or did the police only find post interview?

Surely the Police took the view based upon the ex's allegation to them, albeit they did not investigate it at the time, rather than the judge's findings - which I'd be surprised if they had access to

 

[long_range_rob]

Unfortunately the lawyers know that if there is any accusation of DV then they will get paid from the public purse and the accuser doesn’t have to go through mediation first as they should do.

 

[Mickeydredd]

Wait a minute? No conviction, an allegation….and people think he should wait a while?

Absolutely not - write a stern letter to the CC stating you have never been convicted of a crime

Nor even interviewed, cautioned or charged.

Logically, if the Police didn't think the allegation merited investigation and didn't act upon it, how on earth can they now rely upon it to make such a judgement call.

 

[Long drag]

Trying to take a neutral stance, but you are coming across as a victim, as well you may be, I cant feel you have an other agenda.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Wait a minute? No conviction, an allegation….and people think he should wait a while?

Absolutely not - write a stern letter to the CC stating you have never been convicted of a crime (I assume you have no other record?) and stating that this was an allegation and nothing more and that you should be presumed innocent until charged and convicted of a crime.

I can’t believe people are saying “wait a while” !?!? What a roll over society we are becoming, this is tyrannical and should not effect a SGC application!

If it did then anyone could cause someone to lose certs and not get them back - utter nonsense!

Good luck to the OP, get writing letters!

Regards,
Gixer

100% this.

 

[Greenmist]

No, my ex is a very toxic person, I want nothing to do with her, so we don't speak.

You may find that if they do look into it further, your ex will be contacted

 

[Tf223]

I'd write to the firearms manager an explain the details, include dates and the outcomes. As you weren't convicted there should be no case to answer.

Not true. Non-conviction information may be considered in order to determine an applicants suitability. Same as other forms of licensing where suitability is assessed.

However, if no substance, no evidence to support the allegation, not pursued by victim/police/courts, then you may have grounds to appeal or challenge.

Start by speaking with the FEO about the determination, and the basis for the concern.

 

[Lever357]

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May be worth talking to solicitors who have firearms expertise