Roe deer fawns

[mike308]

I've just got back from Scotland and last week saw two roe does with fawns and for the first time ever actually watched a roe doe giving birth. She was with a group of three does, one of which had a small fawn, and a big buck. This made me reconsider shooting does in March. I could easily have shot a doe which obviously wasn't pregnant but had a fawn laid up nearby. Mike

 

[Uncle f]

I agree. I don’t shoot roe does really after mid January

 

[ChrisWill184]

Really? Where abouts in Scotland?

I have a small location in the north east where a lot of the bucks had shed their antlers by mid September last year - that was a first for me.

 

[MACKY]

Local lad to me saw a pare of twins about a week back just north of Glasgow.

 

[User00025]

Well that amazes me!! sixty years stalking and the earliest I have seen them is May 8th.

 

[User00025]

Well that amazes me!! Sixty years stalking and the earliest I have seen them is May 8th. I just checked and it is April 2nd not the !st.

 

[oowee]

That is early for Roe kids.

 

[Heym SR20]

Roe are clever - they have a delayed implantation of the embryo. Whilst its fertilised during the rut in July, the embryo / s doe n't implant January, but if it is mild, the doe is in good condition they will implant a bit earlier, but if the doe is in poor condition and the weather is cold with little food, the implantation is delayed, and indeed may only implant one rather than two fawns.

Last year with a wet winter and then the beast from the east in March we didn't see many fawns, and those that were born were late.

From a growing point of view, provided the doe has plenty of fat she can produce plenty of milk to provide food for a fawn for several weeks, so even if there is a cold snap, fawns can do well, and will then be at a size to take advantage of the spring grass and buds in May and June and be of a decent size before next winter. So there is an advantage to being born early. Indeed large fawns born early in the year may come into season in September and have young next year.

 

[badbob]

Very interesting. After delayed implantation in August there is usually no real development
of the embryo(s) until January. Normal time for birth is May. So something must be triggering off
early embryo development which appears to be localised. The other explanation could be a late rut with
no delayed implantation. Perhaps even an evolutionary change. Any one else seen this ?
I also do not like the extended doe season.

 

[White Hart]

Id expect older does to drop mid May on but I guess there's a number of variables. How was the winter in that area and whats the roe population like there? I'm no vet but the delayed implantation of the fertilized egg in roe could be a factor that's some five months or so there isn't it? (cant remember the technical name)

Very early, but if you've seen it with your own eyes you've seen it, interesting... Was it a single that you witnessed?

WH

 

[mike308]

I've been stalking for over 40 years and that's the earliest I've seen. West Coast north of Glasgow. All the other does I saw last week were in very good condition. The bucks were looking good as well, all still in velvet.

 

[foxdropper]

Wish they would be a bit earlier here ,might escape the mower if they were up on the leg .

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

one doe i was watching last thurs kept couching ,watched for a good while, and she was up and down like a fiddlers elbow! ,obviously pregnant she wasn,t 30ft from me.

 

[devon deer stalker]

That is amazing, I live in Devon, I have never seen a kid that early, end of April at the earliest.
For those of you who prefer not to shoot late season does/hinds, there is another argument, those who shoot a female on 1st November in England, quite often the the kids/fawns/calves are still too young to be without a mother, and will struggle to get through winter, just sayin'
Cheers
Richard

 

[User00025]

Well Mike I'm not disputing what you have seen, but down here my does still have last years kids with them and even my big bucks are only just fraying a little.
When I lived ooop norf of the wall it was always late May, the Cotswolds mid May and Somerset early to mid May

 

[EMcC]

That is amazing, I live in Devon, I have never seen a kid that early, end of April at the earliest.
For those of you who prefer not to shoot late season does/hinds, there is another argument, those who shoot a female on 1st November in England, quite often the the kids/fawns/calves are still too young to be without a mother, and will struggle to get through winter, just sayin' Cheers Richard

That's where Deer Management comes in Richard.
I know/knew a few people that only select Lone./Barren does or Kids before December and stop end of February. But I know, or have heard of, some estates that hit them all hard regardless of age as long as they are in season.
Incidentally, I have been involved with the culling of Roe since the late fifties and the earliest I have ever seen kids was at the end of April and then only twice and that was not recently.

 

[Willie]

Shot a pregnant doe on the 30th March as part of our cull programme which had 2 fully formed embryos, one male one female. They were both about 9” long max and obviously had a lot of growing to do. Never seen fawns born this early.
Willie

 

[bogtrotter]

Its a new one for me and I been involved with Roe deer for a long time never seen kids before mid May up here, last years kids still running with their mothers absolutely no sign of them pushing youngsters away yet and don't imagine there will be for quite some time yet.

 

[mike308]

I only saw one being born I left the area after that because I didn't want to disturb them. I agree with everyone that this was much earlier than I've ever seen before, but this is in a very mild area of the west coast. I have never liked shooting does in March but this has definitely made my mind up now.

 

[Moray Outfitting]

Certainly very early . Never seen that in all my time stalking. But I would question whether it would become a natural thing. The weather last year really knocked things on their head. Red rut in many places did not really happen when it should have. I was stalking hinds with clients first and second week in November. Stags roaring their heads off and serving hinds. So I would say that would probably mean a lot of late small calves this year. But you never know nature always has a way of surprising us . We can only wait and see....John