Spanielmad
Well-Known Member
it does seem this way. Although it may change in future, has anyone apart from the police response team been trained to deal with such incidents? Another ticket for the book
RTA HUMANE ANIMAL DISPATCH COURSE Saturday 23 November Carnforth
- Thread starter mark-joppa
- Start date
it does seem this way. Although it may change in future, has anyone apart from the police response team been trained to deal with such incidents? Another ticket for the book
After talking to my flo the other day and humberside police have decided to use there ARV's to despatch deer at the road side.
Which means anyone discharging a firearm at the roadside is actually committing an offence if it distress's 'Joe' public,let's see how long this will last???
Which means anyone discharging a firearm at the roadside is actually committing an offence if it distress's 'Joe' public,let's see how long this will last???
bewsher500
Well-Known Member
so what was the gist of the course?
mereside
Well-Known Member
It started off about the numbers of accidents in and around the uk moving onto deer welfare the role of the police officers and then onto the dispatchers role, we had a talk from lancashire police and wildlife crime and what role they would play it was interesting in the fact that lancashire police maybe have had some issues regarding stalkers/ poaching and lack of knowledge and understanding, the lady talked about liasing with stalkers and genuinly seemed to want to help.
maybe somebody from that area can talk abit more as i don't have any knowledge of the area or whats gone on.
If this happens across the board which i am hoping it will then it can only be a good thing so fingers crossed there.
it went into legislation and the laws of whats acceptable and then went onto costs, I learned abit from not only the course but from others so for me was worthwhile meeting other folk.
intersting Karl that is the same responce i have had from Robin, looking at the costs involved i wonder how long they can do that for before it gets turned around.
They seem to change their minds or his mind when it suits and i also wonder if his reasons for wanting ARV'S to do this,atb wayne
maybe somebody from that area can talk abit more as i don't have any knowledge of the area or whats gone on.
If this happens across the board which i am hoping it will then it can only be a good thing so fingers crossed there.
it went into legislation and the laws of whats acceptable and then went onto costs, I learned abit from not only the course but from others so for me was worthwhile meeting other folk.
intersting Karl that is the same responce i have had from Robin, looking at the costs involved i wonder how long they can do that for before it gets turned around.
They seem to change their minds or his mind when it suits and i also wonder if his reasons for wanting ARV'S to do this,atb wayne
Not sure about on the northside of the Humber but in the area of the southbank covered by humberside police they stil seem to be using the lincs deer group.
I think that some of you guys will be in for disappointment in the forseeable future. I reckon it won't be long before ACPO/Home Office realise that so many are using the RTA 'excuse' in order to get hold of a handgun/pistol for the purpose.
When 'stalkers are called out by the Police, then the Police are responsible if something goes wrong. I don't think they are going to want to keep shouldering that responsibility when they already have their own Firearms teams with access to suitable weapons and experience to be able to carry out the task.
I know that suddenly RTA Dispatch courses are 'in vogue' at the moment, but I do feel that - for the organisers - its about the money, and for SOME of the attendees (NOT ALL) its about an 'excuse' to own a handgun/pistol.
WHEN something goes wrong at an RTA involving firearms, then there will be sudden changes, and the Police will handle RTA's involving deer themselves.
Also from an animal welfare angle, I think an ARV will be able to respond MUCH quicker than a stalker (IN MOST CASES), and therefore prolonged suffering of the affected animal will be reduced. That HAS to be good, right??
Regards,
Mike.
Mike Allison
Managing Director - Jelen Deer Services
When 'stalkers are called out by the Police, then the Police are responsible if something goes wrong. I don't think they are going to want to keep shouldering that responsibility when they already have their own Firearms teams with access to suitable weapons and experience to be able to carry out the task.
I know that suddenly RTA Dispatch courses are 'in vogue' at the moment, but I do feel that - for the organisers - its about the money, and for SOME of the attendees (NOT ALL) its about an 'excuse' to own a handgun/pistol.
WHEN something goes wrong at an RTA involving firearms, then there will be sudden changes, and the Police will handle RTA's involving deer themselves.
Also from an animal welfare angle, I think an ARV will be able to respond MUCH quicker than a stalker (IN MOST CASES), and therefore prolonged suffering of the affected animal will be reduced. That HAS to be good, right??
Regards,
Mike.
Mike Allison
Managing Director - Jelen Deer Services
pheasant sniper 1
Well-Known Member
Hi Mike
Anybody wishing to own a handgun only has to join a club..
Why go through all the problems and loops associated with obtaining a handgun for the excuse of humane despatch when joining a suitable club is so easy ?
I shoot with plenty of guys that own handguns yet have nothing to do with deer management.
The other problem is that when the Police draw their weapon and shoot something they'll be withdrawn from service and undergo counselling so it wont be long before were clean out of armed police.
Atb
Terry
I suspect that you are right in most of what you say. However as I think you are suggesting, the ARV will only be able to provide a quicker resolution where the animal is at the side of the road.
Where an animal has made cover I can never see the police having the tracking ability (let alone a dog) or time find an injured animal.
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
Hi Mike
Anybody wishing to own a handgun only has to join a club..
Why go through all the problems and loops associated with obtaining a handgun for the excuse of humane despatch when joining a suitable club is so easy ?
I shoot with plenty of guys that own handguns yet have nothing to do with deer management.
The other problem is that when the Police draw their weapon and shoot something they'll be withdrawn from service and undergo counselling so it wont be long before were clean out of armed police.
Atb
Terry
very true terry,
got a phone call from the RSPCA centre in Rotherham tonight saying two girls had found a reo buck on a lane just off the A34, they asked if I count attend, I said yes, they asked if there was any charge for this service, I said no I have never done so, so far,
phone the police on route to get an incident number so was covered by insurance,
on arrival a roe buck was sat right on the side of the road with the two girls close bay,
My partner took the girls back to there car and sat with them while I dispatched and removed the animal safely,
all this was done within a couple of minutes with one shot from my 12g, then removed to an adjacent field,
never needed anything other than a shot gun but always take a rifle encase.
no counselling needed.......!
Tony
8x57
Distinguished Member
Tony I can understand your reasoning for moving the deer to an adjacent field so as to be out of the gaze of the public, but purely out of interest how do you usually mark the location of the carcass so that it can be picked up by the highways authority and do you normally contact them direct or do you leave that to the police. You obviously don’t just go dumping deer carcasses on private land. I’m just wondering in this instance if the council would come along and some jobsworth say “we are not collecting that, it’s on private land”.
In which case if it hasn’t been co-ordinated properly by the police/council control rooms the poor old landowner will have the responsibility for disposal.
P.S. Situation well handled, no fuss and thoughtful of the general public.
In which case if it hasn’t been co-ordinated properly by the police/council control rooms the poor old landowner will have the responsibility for disposal.
P.S. Situation well handled, no fuss and thoughtful of the general public.
Last edited:
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
8x57,
thanks for your replay and in answer to your question, on that occasion I happened to see the land owner as he came home from an evening out, so I did ask him if I could drag the carcass into the hedge and let nature take its course, I have been call out to rta's on major road with 2 or more carriage ways and there has always been local authority's called in by the police to dispose of the carcass.
The night after that incident I was called out to another on a very busy A road at rush hour.
On arrival there was three cars involved in this deer collision, a small citreon had taken the full impact in the front end of a fallow doe, two other cars had also been involved, the poor fallow was sat on the opposite of the road, the young family from the citreon was sat on the grass verge with blankets around them, the police had called me but no police officer had arrived at the seen when I got there.
nothing could be done about the deer as myself and one other where involved in traffic control and you can imagine what it was like at that time of night, as no police offices where on the seen nothing could be done about the fallow which had managed to move though the hedge and into the field,
When the police arrived and took over traffic control I went to look for the deer, it had moved some 50 yards from the road and was sat up, I informed the police to just shop the traffic until I had dispatched the animal, now I did not inform the landowner, but I did know who it was, was I supposed to delay this poor deer suffering even more by me trying to contact him? I did inform his stalker about the carcass the same night.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
I must admit if call out to a quite country lane I normally just move the carcass out of site and let nature take its course.
Tony
thanks for your replay and in answer to your question, on that occasion I happened to see the land owner as he came home from an evening out, so I did ask him if I could drag the carcass into the hedge and let nature take its course, I have been call out to rta's on major road with 2 or more carriage ways and there has always been local authority's called in by the police to dispose of the carcass.
The night after that incident I was called out to another on a very busy A road at rush hour.
On arrival there was three cars involved in this deer collision, a small citreon had taken the full impact in the front end of a fallow doe, two other cars had also been involved, the poor fallow was sat on the opposite of the road, the young family from the citreon was sat on the grass verge with blankets around them, the police had called me but no police officer had arrived at the seen when I got there.
nothing could be done about the deer as myself and one other where involved in traffic control and you can imagine what it was like at that time of night, as no police offices where on the seen nothing could be done about the fallow which had managed to move though the hedge and into the field,
When the police arrived and took over traffic control I went to look for the deer, it had moved some 50 yards from the road and was sat up, I informed the police to just shop the traffic until I had dispatched the animal, now I did not inform the landowner, but I did know who it was, was I supposed to delay this poor deer suffering even more by me trying to contact him? I did inform his stalker about the carcass the same night.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
I must admit if call out to a quite country lane I normally just move the carcass out of site and let nature take its course.
Tony
8x57
Distinguished Member
I was wondering if you had some sort of procedure for actually marking the site of a carcass such as a piece of traffic tape which is the procedure in an area covered by a friend of mine. Another friend is actually the head of the department responsible for disposing of carcasses in that area. I know from speaking to both that the system sometimes falls down mainly because of lack of communication between individual police officers and the highways authority. I also know that there are a lot of easily displeased landowners in that area who are only too willing to make a formal complaint about the local authority if they think that they have been wronged in any way.
Knowing the local landowners and having a good rapport with them is clearly beneficial in your case. It happens to a certain extent with my first friend as a lot of the land adjacent to the roads is FC land and in the past he has actually dropped off carcasses on occasion at the FC offices and they have disposed of them for him thereby negating the need to get the local authority to collect. This has only been though when the carcass was in a particularly exposed position and could have caused upset to the general public. I suppose its all about working together and mutual support really all in the interests of deer welfare and community spirit.
Knowing the local landowners and having a good rapport with them is clearly beneficial in your case. It happens to a certain extent with my first friend as a lot of the land adjacent to the roads is FC land and in the past he has actually dropped off carcasses on occasion at the FC offices and they have disposed of them for him thereby negating the need to get the local authority to collect. This has only been though when the carcass was in a particularly exposed position and could have caused upset to the general public. I suppose its all about working together and mutual support really all in the interests of deer welfare and community spirit.
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
Mike,
most of the people I know in Hampshire who are on the police HAD list only ever use a shotgun or on a rare occasion a rifle or knife to dispatch an animal, there are a few who have a pistol which had to be restricted at there own cost.
There own Firearms teams would never cope with the demand if you think about it, they would have to have a team that did rta's and not much else, much cheaper to get it done for free and by people who know deer and have experience, as for a ARV being quicker I don't think so as when a call comes in to the control room they are now able to put the nearest HAD to the incident.
I now see you are offering a HAD course, they must be very vogue...!
Mike please don't take this the wrong way but how will yours differ from the bds one?
I thought there's was just a money making thing.
I think maybe somebody like the DI should do it with maybe some financial backing from the rspca, so people could maybe get some sort of training for free for a job there going to be doing for nothing.
Tony
pheasant sniper 1
Well-Known Member
Spot on Tony..
Last paragraphs a winner..
Last paragraphs a winner..
8x57
Distinguished Member
Couldn't agree more Terry, the last paragraph nails it for me.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
when has a pistol been a necessary requirement for animal humane dispatch. ????????,
For the police to undertake animal dispatch, firstly they will probably have human responses as first call with animals second.
As the wounded animal wouldn't probably care who attended to the task of relieving its pain and agony, a stalker attending a RTA who has received approved training in addition to experience and doesn't have a pistol But a common garden suitable calibre rifle, shotgun or a sharp knife. Is as good as it gets, Who cares about a pistol, not I Sir, and many many more besides me, the first call should always be the injured animal and be able to carry out humane dispatch, that is a great asset to wildlife care. To be competent
Not everyone involved with RTA callout is linked into business profit or must have section 5 as far as I can see the BDS course is a worthwhile commitment to animal welfare, no one is forced to attend an RTA course, I guess or hope most people attend the course as a commitment to animal welfare and not cynical remarks of some
phil
Hi Tony,
Good post, and I too agree with your last paragraph. The RSPCA Should back it however, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the DI to do one, and as for the RSPCA supporting a course that consisted mainly of deer stalkers, I think not. I reckon they'd be well scared of fall-out from that one. But you're right, they Should
back it.
You ask how our course will be different to the BDS one, well I only know what I have been told about it so can't really say how it will differ, except to say that I can't take a HAD course seriously if there is no practical demonstrations and some means of testing candidates' practical abilities.
As far as it being 'in vogue' Tony, .. Perhaps it is, but our course is purely in response to requests by several SD members and some others who requested that we develop such a training program, and who feel that the 'alternative option' just doesn't cut it!
Anyone interested in our HAD course can rest assured that we will cover in detail both the theoretical aspects of the HAD Operator's role, but also the practical aspects of what they may face in the real-life scenario.
Hope that helps.
Best regards,
Mike.
Similar threads
