RTA humane dispatch courses

[pheasant sniper 1]

Omg

Mike is this guna be the usual kiss ass brigade

Hes already stated hes seen whats on your wall so another disciple in the making...

Can you answer why your trainer Tony has used his pistol over three hundred times as its an inappropriate tool

 

[mereside]

it's so the folk who have done the course can apply to have pistols!!!

This i don't think is the case, bds do not endorse the use of pistols/revolver for dispatch work due to the uk laws although they do say that it would be usefull in certain instances. in europe using tracking dogs after you have passed the hunting exams you then carry a pistol or revolver for dispatch.
using a revolver whilst tracking deer could be usefull wilst tracking with a hound baying but like anything you need to asses the situation, there are lots of instances where a rifle would not be a good choice and using a knife would not be easy, why not walk up to an animal and use a revolver/pistol.
this subject is always emotive but i do see a benifit to using a revolver at times, atb wayne

 

[Jelendeer]

... Of course you also have the question of accuracy!! ... Pistols are renowned for being inaccurate!! ... So how would a pistol shooter expect to dispatch a deer in thick cover more effectively than a rifle or shotgun?? ... Just interested!

Regs

​Mike

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Mike,

If nobody on your team uses a Pistol

Is Tony Lascelles therefore no longer a member of your training team?

The last description I saw he was one of your Field Officers

Terry

 

[monarman]

Getting into close proximity of any antlered animal that is wounded and which was previously in an adrenal state (caused by the rut as you stated) is a brave move for anyone, so to get close enough to dispatch said animal with a pistol is a risky move.
Besides...'im assuming that your choice of pistol dictates that you have it on your person at the time when the stag goes into thick cover?

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

I expected better of you than this Mike

Pistols are not unlike Rifles where a degree of proficiency gained by training etc ensures their accuracy.

Its a pathetic statement to say Pistols are renowned for being inaccurate.

For the record I was fortunate to receive training from the World Class B Pistol Champion as a kid

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Monarman.

If I am out with clients and I think the ground may dictate the need I will have my pistol with me

 

[Jelendeer]

This i don't think is the case, bds do not endorse the use of pistols/revolver for dispatch work due to the uk laws although they do say that it would be usefull in certain instances. in europe using tracking dogs after you have passed the hunting exams you then carry a pistol or revolver for dispatch.
using a revolver whilst tracking deer could be usefull wilst tracking with a hound baying but like anything you need to asses the situation, there are lots of instances where a rifle would not be a good choice and using a knife would not be easy, why not walk up to an animal and use a revolver/pistol.
this subject is always emotive but i do see a benifit to using a revolver at times, atb wayne

I see your point Wayne, if that's the case then I suppose a ball pain hammer would also be useful in certain instances!

 

[monarman]

for the record A. I am no disciple in the making nor am I part of any kiss ass brigade! B. the head in question is shown on the jelen Website if you read the blog, I have not seen it in person as I have been nowhere near the Jelen headquarters.

 

[mereside]

I see your point Wayne, if that's the case then I suppose a ball pain hammer would also be useful in certain instances!

mike I would not be getting that close to use a ball pain hammer.
the innacuracy thing comes up again why are they innacurate, usually down to a really short barrel and full 357 load. match the correct bullet with the right pistol/revolver and you have a very accurate tool. using a rifle in thick cover when you cannot see that far for backstop?, use a shotgun when you have a dog baying? or do you go back for the shotgun as you cannot carry both whilst out stalking.lots of reasons to use the correct tool for the job, atb wayne

 

[Tiff]

so..... the LONG rifle can't reach into the scrub to put you at a safer distance from an injured stag yet close enough for a shot than the SHORT pistol??
The shotgun loaded with heavy shot... not able to perform the same job as the pistol yet from a safer distance?
The rimfire... same as the shotgun five or ten shot capacity, close range..... added bonus of being quiet.

a pistol the only thing capable of doing the job in this scenario...seriously???????

On my shoots it's not a case of 'reaching into the scrub', the deer and moorland stock make 'tunnels' through large areas of gorse (several acres). If an animal runs after a shot, they run towards this only cover with any follow-up shot then having to be taken at a sometimes uncomfortably close distance - in ground littered with large surface granite. So I either carry an additional shotgun, small bore / fullbore (with trailboss type downloaded rounds) that present a greatly reduced ricochet/splash risk or simply a little pistol that fits in a pocket.

99% of the time it is not required and does not inconvenience me at all, but it is there if required. I don't see why this personal choice (that has been approved by higher authorities) is such an issue for people apparently interested in shooting sports?

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

I see your point Wayne, if that's the case then I suppose a ball pain hammer would also be useful in certain instances!

Or why not a spear if were going to be complete asses...

The fact remains having a Pistol can only add to your ability to humanely despatch deer in the many varied circumstances we may find ourselves in.

Sure those that have never owned one have got by.... The same could be said of those not owning a fire extinguisher in the house until theres a small fire...

Anybody arguing having three or four choices is enough when there are five or six is clearly lacking in grey matter

 

[Jelendeer]

Somebody just got in touch with me and said that pistols are just penis extensions for a lot of folk!!! ... Not sure I agree with that as a generalised statement, but I do think that there might well be some (nay, MANY) cases where this might apply.

I do still feel that the DESIRE for them outweighs the NEED for them in most cases, and some of the arguments FOR them are pretty flimsy!

Regards

​Mike.

 

[jamross65]

If I am tracking deer in cover, I mean proper cover where you are fighting through Sitka with the dog on a 12m lead trying to protect your eyes, never standing taller than a stoop at best, but often on knees or a kind of squatting shuffle, please tell me how you could possibly carry a rifle or a shotgun without it being more of a hindrance, or at risk of getting damaged, and then expect to discharge it from maybe 1-5metres away at a wounded beast that's still very much alive? When someone says you could carry a rifle or shotgun I seriously wonder about two things, firstly do they really make every effort with a tracking dog in the first place to recover, and secondly you obviously do not do much follow up for extraction in similar woods to those I stalk in beyond a cursory look to see if the deer is 'lying there'......

when I applied for permission to possess a pistol/revolver for humane dispatch I was invited in to discuss it over a coffee after submitting a detailed application and covering letter. Instead I asked the FEO if they wanted to come to my ground to see the difficulty for themselves, and they readily agreed. One of them has a little experience with firearms coming from a farming background, the other none. The FEO with no experience whatsoever took one look at the woods and asked two questions, do Sika really live in cover that thick to which I pointed out the several runs within a few yards of him. He then asked how I could possibly follow one into there with a weapon as large as a rifle or shotgun. So what do I do? Just leave it or use a revolver which is far more usable under any circumstances when tracking in such growth with a dog.

If any of the doubters want to prove me wrong by showing me what I'm doing wrong give me a bell if your ever in Peebleshire.

 

[howa243]

Have thought about applying for one several times but have not bothered. I think eventually the purchase of a combination in 12/.222 configuration. It has a short barrel and iron sights and the more I use it the more I see it as an ideal short range weapon. Even though I would like a pistol again I cant honestly see the need.

 

[monarman]

A bit harsh on the penis thing most definitely!

perhaps there should be a poll.... of those who have got pistols for humane dispatch, how many are ex pistol shooters/possessed pistols before the ban?
and how many experienced stalkers who never had pistols feel the need to possess one for humane dispatch?

 

[jamross65]

And another thing, please don't think any organisation like BASC, SNH, BDS or whoever else that was willing to offer an opinion on this subject are doing so with any real hands on experience in stating a revolver or at least one capable of multi shot beyond the restricted two is completely unnecessary is coming from anywhere other that a political ass covering stance. God forbid if we had another Dunblane but imagine what they would face if their opinion was publicised in the aftermath as being supportive in such a weapons use....

 

[jamross65]

A bit harsh on the penis thing most definitely!

perhaps there should be a poll.... of those who have got pistols for humane dispatch, how many are ex pistol shooters/possessed pistols before the ban?
and how many experienced stalkers who never had pistols feel the need to possess one for humane dispatch?

Shot a 38 revolver once, two shots about 15 years ago. Never needed a handgun until I started tracking wounded Sika deer properly and in the cover I now do...

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

Somebody just got in touch with me and said that pistols are just penis extensions for a lot of folk!!! ... Not sure I agree with that as a generalised statement, but I do think that there might well be some (nay, MANY) cases where this might apply.

I do still feel that the DESIRE for them outweighs the NEED for them in most cases, and some of the arguments FOR them are pretty flimsy!

Regards

​Mike.

As a course provider Mike you have failed on every front to answer proficiently why a Pistol is not needed other than its not in your opinion or owners have one as an extension of their penis.

Youll need to let me know how this stand up with your new BASC accreditation.

Its a disgrace you cant adequately answer responses especially when one of your own Trainers/ Field Officers at the time stated he had despatched over three hundred deer with a pistol.

You are entitled to your opinion as we all are Mike but atleast as a Training provider back it up with some substance

Terry

 

[pheasant sniper 1]

A bit harsh on the penis thing most definitely!

perhaps there should be a poll.... of those who have got pistols for humane dispatch, how many are ex pistol shooters/possessed pistols before the ban?
and how many experienced stalkers who never had pistols feel the need to possess one for humane dispatch?

Be interesting to see the results of that one