SAMMI vers CIP

[neil the plumber]

Many thanks for the update Ruger77. Sorry to hear about the hassle you are going through.
I'm a few steps behind you on the Merkel Misery Highway, so watching this with a sinking feeling in my gut, that it could drag on for months.

 

[User00044]

Wow , can't believe this hasn't been resolved .

I'm guessing you still have some fired cases and ammo left , have you measured the neck diameters and compared ? Just purely out of interesting. Obviously , with your rifle now in possession of Viking you can't measure distance to lands , it'll be interesting to hear the outcome .

Sympathy to Ruger77 , I feel your frustration and hope the matter reaches a satisfactory conclusion very soon .

 

[ruger77]

Right chaps I would just like to give you an up date to those who are interested the Merkel went back to the importers I asked for it to be checked as I believe the chamber was out of proof so it went to the proof house in Birmingham they fired two rounds through it that were over charged with powder then sent it back so no chamber measurement it was then returned to the place of purchase it was at that point that i refused to have it back .The riffle was then tested this week with Norma RWS and Remington rounds I received a phone call on Friday from the place of purchase I quote put a variation its going back to the importers so at this point I would like to thank the guys at the shop for finally putting an end to this and to Viking arms I will never deal with you again

 

[User00040]

...and to Viking arms I will never deal with you again

Beware as they are also the UK Leupold importers...

 

[ruger77]

Beware as they are also the UK Leupold importers...

I only use Leica and swarovski scopes

 

[jthyttin]

proof house in Birmingham they fired two rounds through it that were over charged with powder then sent it back so no chamber measurement

I have strong hunch that according to CIP you have to measure with GO/NOGO gauges and several chamber dimension gauges before firing the official proof rounds (these are also controlled / proofed like any other ammunition batch, or rather should be...) Then GO/NOGO after firing, as well as inspecting the brass. They will also write official document that has the findings etc.

Of course the proof house might have done some other half ass job, but they've not acted in official manner in that case. I tried to find some CIP minutes regarding the proof but I must have archived them in very secure place...

 

[Old Pultney]

I have a BSA 7x57 and use CIP and SAMMI brass all squashed into a SAMMI die.

Lots to worry about but easier to call it 275 Rugby and go deer stalking.

 

[palmer_mike]

I have strong hunch that according to CIP you have to measure with GO/NOGO gauges and several chamber dimension gauges before firing the official proof rounds (these are also controlled / proofed like any other ammunition batch, or rather should be...) Then GO/NOGO after firing, as well as inspecting the brass. They will also write official document that has the findings etc.

Of course the proof house might have done some other half ass job, but they've not acted in official manner in that case. I tried to find some CIP minutes regarding the proof but I must have archived them in very secure place...

I have a strong hunch that what you describe rarely if ever happens in the course of a normal proof

 

[borbal]

I have a strong hunch that what you describe rarely if ever happens in the course of a normal proof

Actually, I would disagree with that. Gunsmiths up and down the country have complained that having submitted new guns to proof, the Proof House (Birmingham mostly) has come back and said the chamber is too small in the throat/neck/body/headspace and rejected the rifle before even firing a shot. Either that, or they proof the rifle and stamp on it 'non-standard' or some such, which on a £50,000 rifle is not what you want!

 

[jthyttin]

I know what Mike means.

Just found old copy of CIP rules (I think they're called "minutes" and these date back to 2003). Section 4.2 defines 12 dimensions that must be checked in rifled centerfire weapons prior firing proof rounds (in case you want to refer to chamber drawings: P1, L3, H2, L1/P2, L2/H1, R(E), G1, i, G, F, Z, headspace). Of course single gauge might include more than one dimension.

After firing the headspace is checked. There are visual and functional tests before and after firing also. Here's link to CIP drawings for the interested:

CIP - Homologation

bobp.cip-bobp.org

Have to chat with a friend that's doing the proofs, how many gauges are used. My experience about submitting guns for the proof is like 15 years ago, then I got official notes, extra inspector notes and brief chat with inspector. Doubt that procedure has changed.