Scenars from a 20" Tikka 155 vs 167

[Axxxel]

I've been having a hard time deciding whether to stock up on 167 Lapua Scenar or the lighter, but higher BC 155 Lapua Scenar L (the regular version was recently discontinued in favour of the "L" variant). I've tried both with N140, N150 and a few shots with N540.

The goal is to get the most out of my 308 as far as accuracy and versatility goes . I rarely get to shoot at over 500 meters, but when I do, I'd like to at least be in the game, without having to use a separate load. Since I mostly shoot at 100-300 meters, it's not really rational to stock up on Berger VLD or the new long range bullets from Hornady.

The max load or N150 for 167 Scenar shoots great, as expected. Velocity seems to be about 2650-2750 fps (I don't trust my chrono anymore). This, coupled with the moderate BC, means I'll be subsonic somewhere around 800 meters. Not very exciting, but it would work.

With a slightly over max load of N140 and the 155 gr, I get about the same velocity. Higher BC means I'll get slightly farther. Still not very exciting.

So what to do? I've read (here) that it's common in the UK to load past the published max charge of N140 for the 155 gr scenar. Does anybody here have experience that could give me an indication of what to expect velocity-wise if I go up to 45 gr or more of N140? I'd do so with caution, of course.

 

[dropmdead]

I have tried the 167 scenars out of a 22" tikka, and the fell out the sky at 800 yards.
I would suggest something like the 155gr scenars or Sierra 155gr Palma, the latter managed over 1000 yards out of the same rifle.

 

[Axxxel]

Do you think I'm on the right track thinking I could achieve a serious long range benefit with loading over max with N140 and 155 gr Scenars versus sticking to the 167? When I got home to the range yesterday my slightly over max load of N140 produced a velocity that is pretty much equal to the 167. There is a BC difference but it really isn't that much.

 

[dropmdead]

AFAIK the 167 scenar is a medium range bullet, especially in 308 format.
The Sierra 155gr Palma was designed to run in a 308 for 1k

 

[Donkey Basher]

AFAIK the 167 scenar is a medium range bullet, especially in 308 format.
The Sierra 155gr Palma was designed to run in a 308 for 1k

To do 1000 yards with the 155 Palma it needs to be 'stoked up'! The target rifle crowd at Bisley shoot this bullet from a 'tight' 30" barrel so that it is still supersonic at 1000 yards. General rule is go heavy for distance, light bullets may be faster at the muzzle but physics dictates they decelerate quicker than a heavier bullet with a slower mv. Have shot 175gn Sierra in factory ammo from a 26" AI at 1000 yards no problem but stick 155gn Sierra factory ammo in it on the same detail & they were all over the place.

 

[User00040]

By a .243 or a .264 NeedMore, save time, money and relationships.

 

[ejg]

Some of our customers seem to use the 178ELDX in the CTR at longer ranges. Then with RS powders. They seem to have gone completely away from N 140/150.
Years back I tried the 155's and thought they were finicky, whereas the 167/170's seemed very forgiving. These are also used by some military units in a sniper role.
edi

 

[Axxxel]

Yeah I think I need to dial down my expectations a notch. I've decided to get a large box of 155 Scenar L and just shoot the first 500 with the bottles of N140 and N150 that I bought when searching for an optimal load. I haven't found that load yet, and when I do, I'll see what I can do with this bullet without forcing my equipment to do more than what is reasonable. When I find a fast, accurate and safe load in my precision rifle, it will be interesting to see how it does in my lighter hunting guns.

I realize the 167 are more forgiving, but I got good accuracy from the 155 so I'll spend these first 1000 bullets practicing and experimenting. According to the load manual, the 167 should fly about 100 fps faster than the 155. This negates the better BC of the lighter bullet, but only if you trust the loading manual. I'm not sure that I do.

 

[kennyc]

i'm using 44gns N140 behind 155 scenars through a 20" Howa on the occassions I go to 1000 it stays in the black (which with my shooting is all that I ask ) see pic
at 600 I expect consistant vbulls as long as I keep my end up.
I'm not sure how well they shoot at 100m as the only time I do that is to confirm the zero.

 

[Axxxel]

i'm using 44gns N140 behind 155 scenars through a 20" Howa on the occassions I go to 1000 it stays in the black (which with my shooting is all that I ask ) see pic
at 600 I expect consistant vbulls as long as I keep my end up.
I'm not sure how well they shoot at 100m as the only time I do that is to confirm the zero. View attachment 206103

Lovely! Do you know what velocities you're getting out of that?

 

[Muir]

I have switched to 175's inmy 308 for work out to 1100. At my locale, it is a rare day that 168's will perform well at that range. (3100 ft ASL and relatively dry) The 175's seem to take the distance in stride.~Muir

 

[kennyc]

Lovely! Do you know what velocities you're getting out of that?

25-2600 from memory