Second Hand Rifles - some thoughts

[Heym SR20]

We seem to be getting endless threads on rifles being bought or sold 2nd hand and then lots of complaints about this or that.

Any gun is only ever new once. From factory they come with warranties and guarantees with a level of protection.

2nd hand guns are like 2nd hand cars. There is always a good reason why the first owner sold it. In the UK with rifles it is difficult just to keep a rifle if you fancy something new and I suspect there are lots of rifles trying to be sold just to make space.

Sellers always think rifles are far more valuable than they are.

Consider the cartridge carefully. Things like the 22-250 and 308 are widely used by professionals- gamekeepers, deer managers, forestry rangers. They are bought, used hard and every five to ten years or so are traded in. They then end up in the 2nd had market.

A 7x57 will not have gone through the above.

Most gun dealers these days take in a 2nd hand rifle and strip off the scope and mounts. They make more money that way. Ideally you want to shoot a rifle in its original set up. Chances all bugs were ironed out and it’s probably zeroed pretty well.

The ideal and bargain second hand rifles are the gentlemen and lady type quality rifles. I know of one Mannlicher Schoeneur with one lady owner from new. It was a wedding present. For the last 60 years it’s been used a couple of times a year to take a couple of stags. It is in good condition. The caps on the scope are gummed in position. I doubt it has had more than 100 rounds through it - still has some original ammo - and its been zeroed once in its life.

Most other 2nd rifles may or may not shoot well. Factor in cost of a rebarrel at some point - especially in a fast overbore calibre.

And 20 to 30 years ago a rifle that shot a 2” group was considered more than good enough. And frankly it is. The Internet and marketing has led us all to believe that all rifles shoot 1/2” groups and that any rifleman can take any rifle and shoot 1/2” groups. Most cannot.

If you want certainty in a 2nd hand rifle, either buy new, or buy it from somebody, somewhere that will allow you to test shoot it before buying.

 

[12gsnapcaps]

Agreed, great post. If you're buying a gun for 1/3rd - 1/4 of the 'new price' with a history you aren't aware of - especially from an unknown person off the internet - you pays your money you take your chances. If you aren't willing to take a chance, keep saving and buy a brand new gun from a major dealer.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Just to muddy the waters further. Some new factory rifles can be poor shooters as well and even some custom rifles don't shoot. The first 243 that I bought was a lemon. I spent money on it, learnt a bit and sold it at significant loss.
Regards
JCS

 

[JockStalk]

I’ve just bought a second hand rifle in a notoriously overbore cartridge and the rifle will be 20+ years old.
Buying unseen from an unknown to me RFD via s gun website I take all the one-lady-owner-and-she-was-a-mother-superior type comments with a large pinch of salt. Same goes for the various “barrel scope” results.
The action has a value to me, as does the stock, and any other bits and bobs in the price. If I’m not shooting it or seeing it first, that’s the basis of the price for me. If I have to rebarrel, I will.
There are smiths and dealers I’ve dealt with that I trust implicitly and would not hesitate to buy based on their description and agreed fair value.
If I buy on SD, I’m as interested in the seller as I am the gun. Never had an issue yet on here - and a fair bit of money and goods have changed hands. Again I’d happily pay fair value unseen.
In short, be aware as a seller or buyer, but you can trust many on this site. Do a bit of research, plenty folk on here have a long history of happy purchases or sales.
Equally, if something doesn’t feel right, walk away.

 

[Overlay]

Just to muddy the waters further. Some new factory rifles can be poor shooters as well and even some custom rifles don't shoot. The first 243 that I bought was a lemon. I spent money on it, learnt a bit and sold it at significant loss.
Regards
JCS

Yep I think I suffered that with a brand new browning 223, right from the start, in the end I chopped it in for a Remington but to be honest I would have been just as happy taking a grinder to it, it was a definite friday night rifle - I hated it in the end couldn't wait to get rid-loss of money didn’t matter
the only brownings I own now are shotguns

 

[Mossypaw]

The first .270 I bought about 35 years ago was a secondhand BRNO, rail mounted 4x Zeiss with a post reticle. It was zeroed when I got it and I never felt the need to touch anything, it killed deer and that was it. You stalked in to 100/150 yards and pulled the trigger.
Nowadays, with cost cutting in manufacturing and too many extras/things to go wrong (a bit like modern cars) a rifle is a disposable item.

 

[JH83]

All valid points.

In reality you need to get any S/H rifle bore scoped by someone you trust and knows what they are looking at. I have bought several second hand rifles over the years that have given excellent service, in fact all of my current 3 rifles were second hand but checked meticulously by a friend who is a gunsmith/rifle builder. I always stipulate that the rifle is to be RFD’d to my mate for inspection. Anyone not prepared to do that is selling a lemon.

My last purchase was a sako 591 in .308. Bought from Ivythorne for less than £500, not a mark on it, chequering fresh, blueing deep. Shoots sub inch with everything I have put through it. They are out there!

 

[Skinny78]

I dont have a large bore rifle in my cabinet less than 60 years old, Im in my 4th decade so they have seen at least a little action before coming to me. One is a hand me down and the others are thoroughly inspected purchases over the last 3 decades No plastic no modifications. Been using all for years and back them against any new stainless plastic chopped moded cerecoated disto scoped shiny new ones of the same caliber. There are some awesome looking new firearms available but they aint the be all and end all thats for sure.

 

[DavyG]

A 2nd rifle is like a 2nd hand car.
1. I wouldn’t buy the car without a test drive.
2. I’d shoot the rifle before I bought it.
Simples
DG

 

[Muir]

Never bore scoped a prospective purchase.
Never shot a rifle before buying it. ~Muir

 

[Ziplobb]

We seem to be getting endless threads on rifles being bought or sold 2nd hand and then lots of complaints about this or that.

Any gun is only ever new once. From factory they come with warranties and guarantees with a level of protection.

2nd hand guns are like 2nd hand cars. There is always a good reason why the first owner sold it. In the UK with rifles it is difficult just to keep a rifle if you fancy something new and I suspect there are lots of rifles trying to be sold just to make space.

Sellers always think rifles are far more valuable than they are.

Consider the cartridge carefully. Things like the 22-250 and 308 are widely used by professionals- gamekeepers, deer managers, forestry rangers. They are bought, used hard and every five to ten years or so are traded in. They then end up in the 2nd had market.

A 7x57 will not have gone through the above.

Most gun dealers these days take in a 2nd hand rifle and strip off the scope and mounts. They make more money that way. Ideally you want to shoot a rifle in its original set up. Chances all bugs were ironed out and it’s probably zeroed pretty well.

The ideal and bargain second hand rifles are the gentlemen and lady type quality rifles. I know of one Mannlicher Schoeneur with one lady owner from new. It was a wedding present. For the last 60 years it’s been used a couple of times a year to take a couple of stags. It is in good condition. The caps on the scope are gummed in position. I doubt it has had more than 100 rounds through it - still has some original ammo - and its been zeroed once in its life.

Most other 2nd rifles may or may not shoot well. Factor in cost of a rebarrel at some point - especially in a fast overbore calibre.

And 20 to 30 years ago a rifle that shot a 2” group was considered more than good enough. And frankly it is. The Internet and marketing has led us all to believe that all rifles shoot 1/2” groups and that any rifleman can take any rifle and shoot 1/2” groups. Most cannot.

If you want certainty in a 2nd hand rifle, either buy new, or buy it from somebody, somewhere that will allow you to test shoot it before buying.

A really good post and that is from my perspective as an RFD with 35 years experience. It is noticeable in recent years that buyers expectations have risen and they expect new performance old money. Similarly the crowd that knows the price of everything and the value of nothing is increasing too. Its more prevalent amongst air gunners who think they are buying Daystate accuracy and consistency when they buy an SMK XS19 - the internet is largely to blame with some so called 'reviewers' who really know nothing and are just collecting the freebies from the reps and wholesalers on the way.

 

[sikadog]

I've purchased a few interesting used rifles over the years a 243wssm that went back to the dealer, a BSA 22-250 from holts that took 2 days to clean the bore and then would shoot bullets into the same hole all day.
A 270 BSA that with Norma ammo wouldn't shoot less than 6" but with Winchester it would shoot around an 1".
But it's all fun and if it doesn't shoot I put the chopsaw through then.

 

[Hook'N'Bullet]

Few years ago, I bought a SH Howa 1500 in .223. Never bore scoped it or shot it. Got it at a good deal and jumped on it. Sat for about a year before I shot it. Eventually got around to shooting it and fed it some of that cheapo frontier ammo. (apparently loaded by Hornady) and it was shooting 4 and 5 inch groups at 100.

Back in the cabinet it went while I mulled over the mistake I made. Sat there for another few months and decided to give it a bash again, bought some Federal Premium Nosler Bts and it shot them like a laser and has counted for a number of foxes and longer range rabbits. I consider myself pretty lucky but probably wouldn't buy a SH rifle again if I'm honest

 

[Bowland blades]

A good trader wont send out a lemon on RFD transfer without an honest description . Otherwise he ends up with hassle and £100 worth of costs. A private seller? Your lucky if they are knowing how to inspect a rifle and then its likely to end up in an argument .
Its like buying a used car you look at what really matters as regards cost to sort , then pay accordingly . You aint gonna win every time no matter what - instead your looking for averages very much in your favour fiscally over time. Used rifles make no place near their value and you can find them that have done very little when it comes to deer rifles
Anything obscure ? Make dammed sure you can make a good amount of parts or a mate that can help is on hand .
There are ultimately more perfectly good used guns than bad ones

 

[JTO]

If you can afford to pay for stalking, you can afford to buy a rifle with a warranty or have one re-barrelled.

 

[Overlay]

A good trader wont send out a lemon on RFD transfer without an honest description . Otherwise he ends up with hassle and £100 worth of costs. A private seller? Your lucky if they are knowing how to inspect a rifle and then its likely to end up in an argument .
Its like buying a used car you look at what really matters as regards cost to sort , then pay accordingly . You aint gonna win every time no matter what - instead your looking for averages very much in your favour fiscally over time. Used rifles make no place near their value and you can find them that have done very little when it comes to deer rifles
Anything obscure ? Make dammed sure you can make a good amount of parts or a mate that can help is on hand .
There are ultimately more perfectly good used guns than bad ones

All the more reason to buy a blaser, only have to buy another barrel.


Oh hang on they are the same price as a complete normal rifle.

i’ll just leave this here then.

 

[Bowland blades]

All the more reason to buy a blaser, only have to buy another barrel.


Oh hang on they are the same price as a complete normal rifle.

i’ll just leave this here then.

strangely enough, they also are getting a name for low round counts before you need another , who might have thought it eh?! LOL

 

[Overlay]

strangely enough, they also are getting a name for low round counts before you need another , who might have thought it eh?! LOL

Oh deer thats torn it, head down for fallout

 

[Smellydog]

Had some great bargains over the years because they didn't shoot but I got them working very well in the end.

 

[Confidis]

I purchased a 223 new , and it shot like a dog after the usual runaround with its your mounts/ scope / cheek weld / lack of skill and 100 rounds of various ammo the RFD bore scoped the barrel and it was awful. Returned it as not fit with no bother and got an exceptional deal on a TIKKA. very happy now . With the limited slots and aggravation of even a 141 I cannot risk the time and tears to save a couple of hundred pounds.