Second Hand Rifles - some thoughts

Videoscope is the modern type of borescope. With videoscope files of images can be stored and therefore sent. Think this will be standard in the future now that distans trade of arms is growing. What can be seen on a sent file? Well, general condition of barrel but especially the heights of the lands. Low lands = shot out barrel. Sharp lands = not shot out.

In a way same metod as with art works. Photos of the reverse of a painting can be taken and sent digitally and will tell of any old or new mendings on canvas. Standard procedure now with upper auction houses.
 
That's a good point. Any reputable shop selling a used rifle really ought to satisfy themselves they're not selling a duffer and ought really to be expected to invest in a videoscope to check barrels themselves before selling them on as well as providing the files. That way there'd be no further investment by the buyer expected for having a rifle bore scoped on top of the cost of purchase too.
 
All valid points.

In reality you need to get any S/H rifle bore scoped by someone you trust and knows what they are looking at. I have bought several second hand rifles over the years that have given excellent service, in fact all of my current 3 rifles were second hand but checked meticulously by a friend who is a gunsmith/rifle builder. I always stipulate that the rifle is to be RFD’d to my mate for inspection. Anyone not prepared to do that is selling a lemon.

My last purchase was a sako 591 in .308. Bought from Ivythorne for less than £500, not a mark on it, chequering fresh, blueing deep. Shoots sub inch with everything I have put through it. They are out there!

View attachment 304882
As a matter of interest, who pays to send the rifle to your mate? And if you reject it, who pays to send it back to the vendor, or their rfd?
I know an rfd that wants £90 to send a rifle to another rfd, and then, if it's returned he wants another 50 quid!
You say the guns a lemon if the seller. won't do that but more likely you're to expensive to sell to.
Ken.
 
As a matter of interest, who pays to send the rifle to your mate? And if you reject it, who pays to send it back to the vendor, or their rfd?
I know an rfd that wants £90 to send a rifle to another rfd, and then, if it's returned he wants another 50 quid!
You say the guns a lemon if the seller. won't do that but more likely you're to expensive to sell to.
Ken.

I wouldn't deal with a shop that charged that much.

The UK RFD 2 RFD service is £25 flat rate.
 
I wouldn't deal with a shop that charged that much.

The UK RFD 2 RFD service is £25 flat rate.


Yeah about £25-30

It’s negotiable, but I usually pay. 9/10 times if they’re prepared to send it it’ll be fine so it’s just a one off. Worth it for peace of mind IMO.
 
I wouldn't deal with a shop that charged that much.

The UK RFD 2 RFD service is £25 flat rate.
That's the price I was quoted recently for a rifle I advertised on here.
Another member who is an RFD stepped up and did the job as a favour....he knew the buyer.
I will not pay £90 to send a rifle period.
Ken.
 
That's the price I was quoted recently for a rifle I advertised on here.
Another member who is an RFD stepped up and did the job as a favour....he knew the buyer.
I will not pay £90 to send a rifle period.
Ken.
paid. £60.00 for two rifles and £50 for a single rifle by the gunshop I use recently, quite happy to pay that, they packed it all up, checked the rifles over and kept me in the loop on progress
 
paid. £60.00 for two rifles and £50 for a single rifle by the gunshop I use recently, quite happy to pay that, they packed it all up, checked the rifles over and kept me in the loop on progress
that's fair to be honest, for two that is.

'checked the rifles over' :rofl: it's like when you read on guntrader 'borescoped by us'... ;-) sometimes it even says, borescoped by us and found to be as expected :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Whenever i have sold rifles on here, I've always stated " happy for inspection, borescoped, or tested at my rfd range out to 200 yards.

Why sell a duffer and not be up front...
One mans rubbish can be another mans gold...ie sell the rifle for the right price and have it rebarreled, can lead to a great rifle at a fair price.
 
Some interesting thoughts and observations on this thread so far. Contrary to a few comments berating second-hand rifles, all of mine are second-hand blued steel/wood and have turned out great. My brother has also bought a number of second-hand rifles, including a Varberger on this forum recently. He’s pleased with them all.

Like previously mentioned I think brand, model and calibre are important aspects to take into consideration when buying second-hand. Generally, I’ve found more expensive brands and their respective models (e.g., Mauser 66, Heym SR20, Varberger 757 etc.) will more than likely not have been bought by professional stalkers, or gamekeepers and alike. Similar concept for less mainstream calibres such as the 7x57. 22 centerfires is a different ball game though!

The last second-hand rifle with an unknown round-count I bought was a Heym SR20 in .243 Win. It's blued steel, iron sights, unthreaded and topped with a Swarovski Habicht. All for just under £400. At this price I thought it was worth the trip to view it in person.

Upon first seeing the rifle my father and I both came to the same conclusion; given its age (1987), likely cost at the time of initial purchase, and the glass sat on it, this was probably an older gent’s regular stalking rifle, and not a ‘foxing’ setup. Sure, it had seen some use. The stock was scratched and dinged, the lacquer/varnish finish partially rubbed off, the bluing on the bolt handle and end of the barrel was worn. The scope was in similar condition. However, all that cosmetic wear would be expected for a 30+ year old stalking rifle.

The action though still felt smooth with nothing untoward, the bore was free from pitting, the trigger crisp, no rust was present on the rifle, jewelling on the bolt still clear, and the glass unscratched. The reputable RFD had also tested the rifle and said it was “very accurate” and easily produced sub-inch groups for them. The rifle also came with their 3 months warranty for extra piece of mind. The deal was done.

Shortly after getting the rifle, I confirmed that it grouped within an inch for factory lead bullets, and then trailed the 80gr Fox factory ammunition from Edinburgh Rifles. After the first group of the latter I was pleasantly surprised – a cat’s hair under half an inch at 100 m. Not bad for an old rifle, and good enough even for the snipers on the forum! That degree of precision is perfectly adequate for most stalking needs within 200 yards. Over time all I’ve done is remove the old finish, steamed out scratches/dents, and re-applied the oil finish.

From my experience there is a lot of value to be found in the second-hand market, but as previously mentioned, you should do your research. If possible, always go view and try the rifle for yourself. Many of these older rifles were built to a standard first, then a price. The days before bean counters ruled the roost.
 

Attachments

  • HeymSR20_243_1.webp
    HeymSR20_243_1.webp
    747.3 KB · Views: 22
  • Heym.243_2.webp
    Heym.243_2.webp
    22.6 KB · Views: 22
I love the idea of borescoping a gun a customer is tryin to trade in,
Customer - I have a lovely 308 , only fired 20 shots
Buyer - you have fire cracking and scoring in the rifling, I will give you $50
Customer- are you sure
Buyer - not really, But its My word against yours, just like the round count.
If you buy enough secondhand guns ( only 7 last week, it’s been quite ) you will find a dog occasionally, but still shootable, try bore scoping a new rifle it may frighten you.
 
If I buy on SD, I’m as interested in the seller as I am the gun. Never had an issue yet on here - and a fair bit of money and goods have changed hands. Again I’d happily pay fair value unseen.
In short, be aware as a seller or buyer, but you can trust many on this site. Do a bit of research, plenty folk on here have a long history of happy purchases or sales.
Equally, if something doesn’t feel right, walk away.
I bought my M595 .308 from a member on here about 12 years ago. He was a thoroughly sound chap and the rifle has been everything he promised it would. I went to his house to buy it and I could see from his set-up he was meticulous with his gun care and reloading. I knew it would be a sound buy and so it's proved. It's by some way my most favourite rifle.
I also bought a .243 Sako 75 unseen from Neil Sutherland. An equally sound RFD and I'd trust his word in buying another from him.
 
Yep I think I suffered that with a brand new browning 223, right from the start, in the end I chopped it in for a Remington but to be honest I would have been just as happy taking a grinder to it, it was a definite friday night rifle - I hated it in the end couldn't wait to get rid-loss of money didn’t matter
the only brownings I own now are shotguns
Just to balance this up a little I own three brownings, 2, .223 A bolts and a .243 xbolt, all three are excellent and have never let me down, I suppose a bad one eventually slips through the net but it shouldn’t
 
I have bought two second hand rifles. RFD costs covered by me to my gunsmith for inspection and return if necessary.
The first a sako. Apparently shot clover leafs... report from gunsmith. Pitted barrel not worth buying. Paid the return happily.
Second a sauer. 200 rounds fired.....
Report from gunsmith, it looks brand new, buy it
We have got on fine...much more accurate than I will ever be

Whenever i have sold rifles on here, I've always stated " happy for inspection, borescoped, or tested at my rfd range out to 200 yards.

Why sell a duffer and not be up front...
One mans rubbish can be another mans gold...ie sell the rifle for the right price and have it rebarreled, can lead to a great rifle at a fair price.
I can personally vouch for this as I bought a sako 75 in 243 from him and it is a fabulous rifle.
 
You can buy a good SH rifle now for a quarter of the price of a new one of similar std ! Now if we take what i paid for a sako 75 around £500 from RFD transfer sight unseen to the current Sako or even the cheapest Tikka model i am around a 1/3 -1/4 of the price. Cut a couple of inches off so it better suited moderator use then crown and thread, shoots MOA to 0.5MOA, can consistently selectively head shoot bunnies with it out to 200 yds off sticks. The rifle was shot by receiving RFD before the chop and crown and it was inch - 1 1/2" got it from IVYTHORN who stated if i couldnt nail a golfball at 100 yards consistently to send it back and was honest about the state of the last few inches needing attention and sent photos of areas with battle scars ( all stuff i can do in time but not pressing ) . Oh and remember some new in the box rifles are not good , a mate bought a new Remington and it was rubbish , re- stocked it and ..... it was still rubbish !
 
Dare I say it, Sako is the same in my opinion
Oh yeah , I am a big 75 fan - frankly if i was to buy another CF rifle in the near future it would be a 75 . Heck reading about that carbon stocked one they have launched and its RRP I could buy just a sako 75 action re-barrel , re-stock and pillar bed it and still come in at less . With a Walnut or laminate stock through i woule just tart it up if it needed it then pillar bed . I paid just £500 for a std 75 recently and chopped and re- crowned / re threaded £600 -650.
 
A 2nd rifle is like a 2nd hand car.
1. I wouldn’t buy the car without a test drive.
2. I’d shoot the rifle before I bought it.
Simples 🤗
DG
I would say that the fairest way would be for the seller to shoot a group in front of the buyer. A buyer shooting a group with a strange rifle, might also be clever enough to shoot a bad group with a view to getting a price reduction.
 
Realise that a bolt action rifle is a glorified version of this, and things become clear:

20231007_104906.webp

What you pay for, in no particular order:

1. Quality of materials

2. Design features

3. Quality of manufacture/QC

4. Brand name/marketing/PR

5. Importer/dealer markup (moreso the former on a new rifle, moreso the latter on a second hand one)

I'll leave you with this... :tiphat:

BLA_Schnuller-Frontal.webp
 
Back
Top