shooting lease ?

[nuttyspaniel]

£600 for ten years,that's a bit like kicking a man when he is down, £1 an acre per year absolute minimum and that's an awful lot less than a lot of leases.

Spot on.


Nutty

 

[nuttyspaniel]

Being honest I think the farmer would be very foolish to entertain this arrangement. Yes I have no doubt he would wish to clear his debt but if he sold you the shooting rights for 10 years and if he found himself in a position where he had to sell his land, he would have to sell it on the basis that there are no shooting rights which may devalue the land. £600 debt over ten years on 120 acres obviously works out at 50pence an acre. I would think that even rough shooting ground is worth £1/ £1.50 an acre. Your arrangement is not in the best interests of the farmer. He would be better off selling you the shooting rights at say £1.50/ acre until such time as he sells his farm and at this point pay you the remainder of the debt.

Wise words.


Nutty

 

[Akeld]

This is in Lew of a buissness det that I will have to still pay tax on and not some cash in hand deal. If I have to go through other routes to get my money's it will cost both party's more money!!.
The money owed is not just for Labour but also materials , the debt is over 6 months old and I have as yet not had any money of the job!!! So still think my proposed deal is a fair one for both party's.

I'm not in any way suggesting your business dealings or arrangement are under hand or out of order. I'm saying £600 for ten years shooting rights is, as you mention tax, how will the in lieu deal go on your books (genuine question), and as I have said, if he is just a tenant farmer he won't hold the shooting rights he's selling you (plenty of people have been stung like this).
You might have more satisfaction, getting permission from him, free milk and an agreement to collect and sell a bit of firewood from the wood, you would see a quicker return on the debt

 

[reiver]

It will depend on a lot of things but but without seeing the ground it's impossible to say.

£60 quid a year is not a lot but it mibee isnae worth a lot? 120acres isnae really going to intrest that many people, and probably would be the type of ground u get for doing the vermin or a bottle at christmas.

I bid 20p an acre on a shoot recently (no deer), despite have the neighbouring shoot it was not worth any more, it went for £1.20 an acre (1000 acres) for dog training and farmer has never ever seen the folk there yet in the past 3 years. Bloody mental money. Only had 1 pond and that needed digger work done[/QUOT



That's just about sums it up countrryboy

I no not need the shooting rights as I have plenty of land to shoot on for free .All I was doing was trying to get my money back without costing the farmer any thing. In real terms I have had to pay 2 men for 2 days work plus materials .
when we could have being working else were and got paid so in real terms it will have cost me more like £1000 for something that I was not that bothered about in the first place but that's business for you.
Any one who knows me will know that I don't kick a man when he is down.

Bob

 

[countrryboy]

If he's a tennant farmer it will depend on his lease but some won't even allow u to give permision for vermin shooting as that could be held by the estate/shooting tennants, even fallen timber in fields often belong to the estate and farmers have to buy it back if they want it for fire wood. But willl be different onevery estate but most are pretty hard up and tight now and screw the farmers for everything they can

At 20ish p a litre it will take 3000litre to get ur money back, thats 3T of milk plus it will be unpasterised doubt many folk would appreciate the taste of real unaltered unskimmed milk.

I'd just right it off and shake his hand over the shooting so u may get the shooting for a lot longer than 10 years, that way he's not tied into a lease if he has to sell as that may shaft him

 

[Archer]

countryboy
Background is that we got shafted over a previous place (there is a thread on SD about it) where one of our syndicate took over the lease for himself at point of renewal (despite claiming to be negotiating for all 3) and we left when he then wanted to sub lease some of the area to us for use. (Legal no no we believed)
That left us short of land for our hobby - zeroing should perhaps have been in " " as I reload and do rather a lot of test firing.
As a result we door knocked and are now where we are- and happy with the cost

All agricultural students ( and therefore their parents) are now being made aware of maximising the potential of a farm and any form of "rights" brings in much needed money.

You are lucky to have what you have and long may it last for you

 

[Alantoo]

snip...
I'd just right it off and shake his hand over the shooting so u may get the shooting for a lot longer than 10 years, that way he's not tied into a lease if he has to sell as that may shaft him

That seems to me to be favourite.

By the time you have involved a solicitor/professional to draw up an agreement it is going to be costing you a lot more. An exchange of letters and a handshake between you seems a good way to cement a deal especially it it proves long lasting. By some people's assessment even if you only get to shoot it for a year you will not have lost out.

Alan

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

It will depend on a lot of things but but without seeing the ground it's impossible to say.

£60 quid a year is not a lot but it mibee isnae worth a lot? 120acres isnae really going to intrest that many people, and probably would be the type of ground u get for doing the vermin or a bottle at christmas.

I bid 20p an acre on a shoot recently (no deer), despite have the neighbouring shoot it was not worth any more, it went for £1.20 an acre (1000 acres) for dog training and farmer has never ever seen the folk there yet in the past 3 years. Bloody mental money. Only had 1 pond and that needed digger work done[/QUOT



That's just about sums it up countrryboy

I no not need the shooting rights as I have plenty of land to shoot on for free .All I was doing was trying to get my money back without costing the farmer any thing. In real terms I have had to pay 2 men for 2 days work plus materials .
when we could have being working else were and got paid so in real terms it will have cost me more like £1000 for something that I was not that bothered about in the first place but that's business for you.
Any one who knows me will know that I don't kick a man when he is down.

Bob

myself personally i think its commendable that your giving up on the payment seeing as hes skint ,i have no idea what the land or shooting is worth that doesnt even come in to it as long as your both happy with the arrangement well done,doug

 

[RED-DOT]

If the farmer can't pay a small bill like this how can he pay more important running costs? Vet and energy costs etc... This must disprove the fable that there is no such thing as a poor farmer.

PS. Now that milk is cheaper than water it is an abdolute money saver when used for topping up windscreen washers and vehicle radiators & batteries!

 

[Pedro]

I guess you're right. We can all speculate whether the £600 for ten years is a good deal for either person, but it does all depend on what the land is like and the circumstances of both parties.

I should say that the main thing if you enter into this arrangement is to have the agreement in writing to ensure you get your end of the deal, or should things go wrong (he sells the farm or something) then he still owes the money or part of it and you could claim it. The fact that he hasn't paid you obviously means that he's struggling, but I suspect he doesn't see you as a priority to pay back, so you have to nail him down to it somehow.

 

[reiver]

I guess you're right. We can all speculate whether the £600 for ten years is a good deal for either person, but it does all depend on what the land is like and the circumstances of both parties.

I should say that the main thing if you enter into this arrangement is to have the agreement in writing to ensure you get your end of the deal, or should things go wrong (he sells the farm or something) then he still owes the money or part of it and you could claim it. The fact that he hasn't paid you obviously means that he's struggling, but I suspect he doesn't see you as a priority to pay back, so you have to nail him down to it somehow.

Thats why I asked about a proper worded lease agreement in the first post.
I know he has some bigger bills than mine to pay Inc feed,and the vets hence the reason for trying to lease the shooting right which will cost him nowt now and he will be back in 10 years. Seeing as no one stalks / shoots the land it is a income that will not be missed by the landowner (farmer).

BOB

 

[Pedro]

Probably the best route is to get a solicitor to draw up an agreement. But that of course will come at a cost. It's entirely reasonable to write something up yourself, making things clear and have a copy each that is signed by both parties and also some independent witness. If things go wrong, that'll likely be enough to prove you had an agreement.

Include the details as much as possible, the dates the agreement will be valid, what having the rights includes (game, vermin, deer, zeroing, clay shooting or whatever), whether you need to give him notice when coming, any times/days to avoid, if you can build pens and where if you want to do that, what happens to any venison or game you shoot, is there any accommodation to put any equipment (game feeders, feed, maybe a quad bike), or not. Maybe the use of a small out house or corner of a barn, or a small plot to put a shed. Basically have a good think about what you want from it. Ensure that the rights will be exclusive to you (or you and your guests). Although he will still have a right to shoot vermin as required for his farming purposes.

i think it's already been mentioned that a look on the BASC website could be good.

 

[Jono 4]

Please be careful writing your own lease, I did this and adapted another lease I hold, I had agreed a 12 year lease to help the land owner out as he was struggling financially and paid cash up front for the full lease the landowner tried to sell the land but didn't tell the new owners about my lease, you can't register sporting rights at the land registry, when I called to introduce myself to the new owners they new nothing about me. The owner tried to claim the lease was invalid, the purchasers pulled out, it cost me £1200 to defend my lease and the problem only went away when police involvement was threatened. I still shoot the land and will continue to do so for the remainder of the lease, but I doubt he will renew it.

 

[Pedro]

Please be careful writing your own lease, I did this and adapted another lease I hold, I had agreed a 12 year lease to help the land owner out as he was struggling financially and paid cash up front for the full lease the landowner tried to sell the land but didn't tell the new owners about my lease, you can't register sporting rights at the land registry, when I called to introduce myself to the new owners they new nothing about me. The owner tried to claim the lease was invalid, the purchasers pulled out, it cost me £1200 to defend my lease and the problem only went away when police involvement was threatened. I still shoot the land and will continue to do so for the remainder of the lease, but I doubt he will renew it.

A salutary lesson to us all to get things watertight. We like to think the people we deal with, whether they are land owners or fellow shooters are honest, but the above story tells a tale, as do the threads we see on here that tell of some deal going wrong when one member has bought something from another. I like to think the great majority are honest, but obviously not all.

 

[Jono 4]

A salutary lesson to us all to get things watertight. We like to think the people we deal with, whether they are land owners or fellow shooters are honest, but the above story tells a tale, as do the threads we see on here that tell of some deal going wrong when one member has bought something from another. I like to think the great majority are honest, but obviously not all.

The sad thing is I had shot game with the guy, took him for pinks under the moon and he had been the first person to take me stalking munty, turns out wanted a champagne lifestyle with a corona income and my lease money,as he was an RFD you to order all my stuff through him so he's lost that business as well unfortunately they guy can't lay straight in bed.