Silly prices for bucks! Thoughts ?

[6pointer]

Yes he is her son. I would say in general stalking is cheaper in scotland than in England there will always be the ODD ONE who is as expencive but Roe buck stalking which is what this thread is about is certainly cheaper in Gods country. Terry if you can get it cheaper down south let the thousands of stalkers that come to scotland paying hundreds of pounds in fuel know were it is. Also the fact that more medal bucks are shot in scotland should also point stalkers in this direction.

 

[Lakey]

Yes he is her son. I would say in general stalking is cheaper in scotland than in England there will always be the ODD ONE who is as expencive but Roe buck stalking which is what this thread is about is certainly cheaper in Gods country. Terry if you can get it cheaper down south let the thousands of stalkers that come to scotland paying hundreds of pounds in fuel know were it is. Also the fact that more medal bucks are shot in scotland should also point stalkers in this direction.

You must mean Ben or Morgan then...................?They are both Jans sons

 

[6pointer]

Your right Lakey it was Ben i was thinking about and a very nice chap indeed.

 

[howa243]

Terry if you can get it cheaper down south let the thousands of stalkers that come to scotland paying hundreds of pounds in fuel know were it is. Also the fact that more medal bucks are shot in scotland should also point stalkers in this direction.

If the thousands of stalkers down south are paying hundreds of pounds in fuel in what way does that make stalking in Scotland less expensive overall. As a I am sure you are aware forestry in Scotland is significantly cheaper than in England. On the basis that forestry is an investment like any other, and in England it is closer to the majority of stalkers it would make sense for it to be more expensive (if it is). I go stalking in Cumbria and it costs me £120 in fuel and accomodation on top. I am fairly sure I could get it cheaper closer because of these additional costs.

 

[Brianm]

I have been shopping round for a shot at muntjac and find the 'cull fee' spoils my project.

The stalk charges are acceptable, but being asked for £70 for bucks, Not Trophy Bucks !! just bucks, is too much.

Maybe next year !

Brianm

 

[sikamalc]

Choc,

sorry I disagree with you here. Duke of Northumberlands Estates were charging £60 and outing when Colin Kerr was head stalker, I am charging £60 an outing this year, last year it was £50!
Most folk go to Scotland for the scenery and stalking combined for a weeks holiday. There are many good Roe areas in Scotland, and some cracking heads taken. But if you are hill stalking it is not the ideal place to take good heads. Plus I am VERY aware as I have said before that in SOME places stalkers are asking £50 as a tip everytime they take a client out. I know as I have had to deal with these people who have demanded it from my clients. I have not returned to these estates.

There will always be those who overprice, Jan Andrews I believe charges £150 a stalk, this is certainly very high, and beyond many stalkers pockets, I certainly would not pay it!! but some people do

What do you pay in Scotland ? and if you work for an estate what do they charge ?

ATB

Sikamalc

 

[6pointer]

Its 60 pounds were i am for a buck and thats it end of story. Most of the chaps i have contacted down south were the same price but if you connect then the price gose through the roof. I am sure some come for other reasons but most come to shoot deer. I am sure if they have pais 120 + for fuel and then 60 pounds for a stalk it would suggest to me that to stalk in there own areas would be more expencive than that.

 

[bogtrotter]

Its 60 pounds were i am for a buck and thats it end of story. Most of the chaps i have contacted down south were the same price but if you connect then the price gose through the roof. I am sure some come for other reasons but most come to shoot deer. I am sure if they have pais 120 + for fuel and then 60 pounds for a stalk it would suggest to me that to stalk in there own areas would be more expencive than that.

Choc. as I said previously depends on where you go, now while £60 seems to be the average price of an outing through out the country
You are lucky if you don't have any fees on top of that.

I wont name names but know of one in the north east of Scotland that charges £80 per outing + £80 per Buck up to medal stander ed then £2 per cic point over and above the previous charge.

Also one in Fife charging similar prices.
Neither of these places seems to have any problem getting clients.

As has been said many times before on here, if you think the price is to high , go somewhere else, prices do tend to be a bit higher on the east side of Scotland, because of the quality.
I f you are happy to shoot average bucks there are some quite good deals out there, generally speaking if you want medal heads be prepared to pay.

I have no problem with charges as long as a client knows what they are, its when there are hidden charges,





Now most places will charge for damaged carcases and I think this is fair, but some charge for missed shots, some charge for the use of estate rifle,
[this actually illegal]

Charge for every bullet fired it goes on and on, with the result that the client doesn't know what his day is going to cost him
this I think is a rip off, not the stalking charges.

 

[Lakey]

Why would I let someone have a young buck for £60 ( in other words - NOTHING)? when if that buck was spared and left to grow on for another three years I could sell the same animal for £400 as a good trophy animal. It just doesnt make financial sense ? Deer only get good antlers, if they are left to realise their potential. I do cull out poor or injured deer off the estates however as we all know these represent a very small percentage of the overall cull, that is why there are always good bucks on my ground. it isnt rocket science!!! you can only kill a buck once so why sacrifice the deer for nothing. If I want to control population numbers I shoot does, if I wanted to shoot purely for carcass money, then I would shoot fat three and four year olds rather than thin yearlings and two year olds. either way I still dont feel the need to sell bucks at £60. No point in being a "busy fool" racing around like a mad thing, burning up expensive fuel and then earning NOTHING. Far rather get a good return for my time and effort and get quality bucks. That is life I am affraid and depend on pure supply and demand economics.......


Lakey

 

[bogtrotter]

Choc,

sorry I disagree with you here. Duke of Northumberlands Estates were charging £60 and outing when Colin Kerr was head stalker, I am charging £60 an outing this year, last year it was £50!
Most folk go to Scotland for the scenery and stalking combined for a weeks holiday. There are many good Roe areas in Scotland, and some cracking heads taken. But if you are hill stalking it is not the ideal place to take good heads. Plus I am VERY aware as I have said before that in SOME places stalkers are asking £50 as a tip everytime they take a client out. I know as I have had to deal with these people who have demanded it from my clients. I have not returned to these estates.

There will always be those who overprice, Jan Andrews I believe charges £150 a stalk, this is certainly very high, and beyond many stalkers pockets, I certainly would not pay it!! but some people do

What do you pay in Scotland ? and if you work for an estate what do they charge ?

ATB

Sikamalc

Sikamalc. Tips will always be a controversial topic, when to tip, how much to tip, I find the idea of a stalker asking for a tip abhorrent, I have been a stalker all my life employed by estates and laterally on a contract basis, and have never asked for a tip in my life [does not mean you don't expect to get one]

Tips should be earned if you have given the client a good day its only right that he should show his appreciation.

I have had everything from the chap who handed me two pound coins to get a drink, to the guy how gave me a £100 for a very average buck.

 

[Ewich]

Sir-lamp-alot,

Well said - could not agree more!

 

[bogtrotter]

Why would I let someone have a young buck for £60 ( in other words - NOTHING)? when if that buck was spared and left to grow on for another three years I could sell the same animal for £400 as a good trophy animal. It just doesnt make financial sense ? Deer only get good antlers, if they are left to realise their potential. I do cull out poor or injured deer off the estates however as we all know these represent a very small percentage of the overall cull, that is why there are always good bucks on my ground. it isnt rocket science!!! you can only kill a buck once so why sacrifice the deer for nothing. If I want to control population numbers I shoot does, if I wanted to shoot purely for carcass money, then I would shoot fat three and four year olds rather than thin yearlings and two year olds. either way I still dont feel the need to sell bucks at £60. No point in being a "busy fool" racing around like a mad thing, burning up expensive fuel and then earning NOTHING. Far rather get a good return for my time and effort and get quality bucks. That is life I am affraid and depend on pure supply and demand economics.......


Lakey

I agree with almost everything you say, apart from the part about only a small percentage
of poor animals need to be culled, not every animal will make a trophy buck.

In fact to keep a stable population, across the age spectrum, cull should be around 60% young 30% middle aged and 10%
old.

 

[Amberdog]

Lakey it must be me i'v had a long day at work just what type of buck are you charging £400 for....????? trophy to me means gold,silver,bronze and no i havn't shot one yet but i will do as i can see the value in taking a truly special trophy and are quite happy to pay the going rate next year i hope. If your charging that for average bucks im doing somthing very wrong as we cull 40+ six point bucks all average to good but under cic medal class and dont think anything of it in monetary value just the stalking experiance,But back to the question i don't think roe bucks are over priced you have the option to pay or not to pay
Amberdog

 

[Roedinator]

tommo luckily the farmer did not take the money
I told my mate to go and see him and explain trophy animals dont grow on trees and as you rightly said
the bloke would shoot the **** out of the place and be gone
the farmer exlpained he didnt like tescos monopoly and didnt like the sound of this guy either
great result for my mate regards pete ,

 

[Lakey]

Lakey it must be me i'v had a long day at work just what type of buck are you charging £400 for....????? trophy to me means gold,silver,bronze and no i havn't shot one yet but i will do as i can see the value in taking a truly special trophy and are quite happy to pay the going rate next year i hope. If your charging that for average bucks im doing somthing very wrong as we cull 40+ six point bucks all average to good but under cic medal class and dont think anything of it in monetary value just the stalking experiance,But back to the question i don't think roe bucks are over priced you have the option to pay or not to pay
Amberdog

Amberdog let me clarify things a bit. I work as a guide for a couple of professional stalkers catering mostly for continental visiting hunters. All my animals are stalked with their clients. continental stalkers are almost exclusively interested in mature roe trophies of 400 grams upwards ( in other words medal heads) That is the sort of quality you would charge £400 for. lesser bucks would of course be cheaper, however malformed heads are especially prized by continentals and are usually priced on an individual basis.We only stalk for known animals which have been identified and fully assessed before the hunt begins, that is why we spend so much time observing the deer onour ground, working out territories and habits of these special trophy animals. All the work we do behind the scenes increases the chances of a successful hunt and therefore a happy client that goes home with the trophies they want. my employers charge for all this extra work,and both enjoy a large amount of repeat business, which suggests that the continental clients appreciate this time consuming and labour intensive approach tone thing that is rarely done if ever is just to take a client out in the vague hope that we might stumble across a buck in our travels. I am well aware however that not all stalkers adopt this professional manner, and some just rely on pure 100% luck to get a result.Those stalkers are just happy to shoot ANY buck! (often the first buck they clap eyes on) That is in very sharp contrast to the way we do business.

Lakey

 

[Lakey]

Lakey it must be me i'v had a long day at work just what type of buck are you charging £400 for....????? trophy to me means gold,silver,bronze and no i havn't shot one yet but i will do as i can see the value in taking a truly special trophy and are quite happy to pay the going rate next year i hope. If your charging that for average bucks im doing somthing very wrong as we cull 40+ six point bucks all average to good but under cic medal class and dont think anything of it in monetary value just the stalking experiance,But back to the question i don't think roe bucks are over priced you have the option to pay or not to pay
Amberdog

Amberdog let me clarify things a bit. I work as a guide for a couple of professional stalkers catering mostly for continental visiting hunters. All my animals are stalked with their clients. continental stalkers are almost exclusively interested in mature roe trophies of 400 grams upwards ( in other words medal heads) That is the sort of quality you would charge £400 for. lesser bucks would of course be cheaper, however malformed heads are especially prized by continentals and are usually priced on an individual basis.We only stalk for known animals which have been identified and fully assessed before the hunt begins, that is why we spend so much time observing the deer onour ground, working out territories and habits of these special trophy animals. All the work we do behind the scenes increases the chances of a successful hunt and therefore a happy client that goes home with the trophies they want. my employers charge for all this extra work,and both enjoy a large amount of repeat business, wheich suggests that the continental clients appreciate this time consuming and labour intensive approach tone thing that is rarely done if ever is just to take a client out in the vague hope that we might stumble across a buck in our travels. I am well aware however that not all stalkers adopt this professional manner, and some just rely on pure 100% luck to get a result.Those stalkers are just happy to ANY buck! (often the first buck they clap eyes on) That is in very sharp contrast to the way we do business.

Lakey

 

[Lakey]

I agree with almost everything you say, apart from the part about only a small percentage
of poor animals need to be culled, not every animal will make a trophy buck.

In fact to keep a stable population, across the age spectrum, cull should be around 60% young 30% middle aged and 10%
old.

Bogtrotter, you are of course correct. the small percentage I was referring to was for 'poor and injured' deer only. I currently have about 50% of my buck cull as young deer but the vast majority of these are perfectly fit and well. poor and injured deer only make up a very small part of this total.

Lakey

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Why would I let someone have a young buck for £60 ( in other words - NOTHING)? when if that buck was spared and left to grow on for another three years I could sell the same animal for £400 as a good trophy animal. It just doesnt make financial sense ? Deer only get good antlers, if they are left to realise their potential. I do cull out poor or injured deer off the estates however as we all know these represent a very small percentage of the overall cull, that is why there are always good bucks on my ground. it isnt rocket science!!! you can only kill a buck once so why sacrifice the deer for nothing. If I want to control population numbers I shoot does, if I wanted to shoot purely for carcass money, then I would shoot fat three and four year olds rather than thin yearlings and two year olds. either way I still dont feel the need to sell bucks at £60. No point in being a "busy fool" racing around like a mad thing, burning up expensive fuel and then earning NOTHING. Far rather get a good return for my time and effort and get quality bucks. That is life I am affraid and depend on pure supply and demand economics.......


Lakey

That statement is not entirely true is it
A lot of factors in why a buck has a large set of antlers and the major one being the soil type in the area the buck feeds on and its access to it. it is also common knowledge that all because a buck has a decent pair of antlers on it one year the following year the same buck may have a lesser head and we are also aware as the buck gets past its prime in following years the head starts to go back in quality. But the main over riding factor is minerals that are present in the soil along with gene quality.
It is important to reduce and cull younger bucks on the ground as well as it is important to reduce doe numbers if the correct vegitation grown on the correct soil type existed everyware in abundance you would see animals with larger antlers everyware, As it is most stalking areas have only small pockets of the correct soil type and will only sustain in those areas a small number of deer so if you want to see deer with larger antlers culling beasts of cull buck size will give you those results.

I refer you to The Eskdalemuir scientific studies for further information on the matter.

Stu

 

[Lakey]

That statement is not entirely true is it
A lot of factors in why a buck has a large set of antlers and the major one being the soil type in the area the buck feeds on and its access to it. it is also common knowledge that all because a buck has a decent pair of antlers on it one year the following year the same buck may have a lesser head and we are also aware as the buck gets past its prime in following years the head starts to go back in quality. But the main over riding factor is minerals that are present in the soil along with gene quality.
It is important to reduce and cull younger bucks on the ground as well as it is important to reduce doe numbers if the correct vegitation grown on the correct soil type existed everyware in abundance you would see animals with larger antlers everyware, As it is most stalking areas have only small pockets of the correct soil type and will only sustain in those areas a small number of deer so if you want to see deer with larger antlers culling beasts of cull buck size will give you those results.

I refer you to The Eskdalemuir scientific studies for further information on the matter.

Stu

Stu,I didnt mean my answer to be the complete 100% 'everything to know EVER' answer on deer selection.And,I agree with what you say.

I have already said that 50% of my buck cull consists of young animals. However, if you look at the start of this thread, it is about the supposed high price of buck stalking, and the original posters opinion that he thought buck stalking was way too expensive.
I have sought to suggest reasons why it is often highly priced to stalk good quality medal quality heads, as these are a relatively rare rescource, also anyone that sells them for £60 and no trophy fee, is IMHO way too cheap.I think even good mature representative heads at £60 is too cheap.
Young yearling spikers are another matter.
There are 100's of reasons why deer either do or do not grow large antlers. Geographic area, food availabilty, genetics, peace and quiet,selective culling, deer density, etc etc etc all these and more have a part to play in making big antlers.
It is also true however, that you dont see very many yearling Gold medals..................... therefore my answer that you have to leave deer to mature and realise their potential is not entirely untrue either.(there arent too many statements about deer management that are true 100% of the time). I didnt mean you have to leave ALL deer to mature.......
Books have been written on the finer points of deer management to maximise antler growth, however I still broadly stand by my statements, and I hope that in this thread I have suggested reasons why not all stalkers might be happy to charge £60 quid plus no trophy fee for their bucks..........................................If some are then the very best of British luck to them

Lakey

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Point taken.
If I remeber correctly many years ago I used to stalk at Spadeadam in Cumbria with Gordon Mcready who was the head ranger for the F.C and even in those days going back 30 years the charge was £30 outing either morning or evening and £60 for a a cull buck and so much a point above a 4 pointer so in all honesty and fairness prices havent gone up, neither has the price you get for venison as i used to get £1 per llb even in those days in fact I get less for it today at .85lb which really winds me up , so much so it dosent cover my petrol charges them but thats another issue.

Stu