So . . . .
- Thread starter Woodsmoke
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Wee Krankie very much reminds me of what we have got "Doesn't listen to anybody" so don't need another one thanks.
Regarding the SNP's in Westminster they never utter anything except how badly Scotland are treated and how they want to leave the Union, beats me that they go to parliament at all. I find them rather wearisome, continually spouting the same tripe, and I sometimes just hope they do obtain indy because it will be the biggest shock to the people that vote for them when they lose the Union contributions.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
Not going down the 'contributions' route again as it's just a recipe for an argument (even though you're wrong
)Kidding aside, on the subject of the SNP a great many of my countrymen feel the same way! Trouble is, they were elected by an idiotic nationalist slide following the Independence Referendum, with the majority of their support coming from the main cities. A democratic majority is fair enough in principle, but principles is exactly what the SNP do not have, nor do they have any regard whatsoever for those people in Scotland who reside outwith the main cities, and who's way of life is markedly-different, yet are affected most by the policies that the SNP prostitutes itself to.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
I'd 2nd wot woodsmoke said not an snp fan by any means and sorry for derailing the threa onto the subject.
But wot i was trying to get at is why have u never objected previously to the 40 odd scots labour MP's previously??
They could potentially wield far more power over westminster than the snp ever will, hell until this term (or possibly last term, basically under salmond) the snp had a policy of not voting on english only matters. The scots Labour mp's would not be doing the same, so if u vote tory it would actually be benefical to have more snp mp's.
Also 4HM u like me may not care for her or her politics but she stands up for them and is blinkered on her goals no matter wot anyone other than the swivel eyed lunatics in her party think..
May hasn't got a clue wot she wants, never mind wot her party wants and is flip flopping all over the place to me eyes there almost polar oppisates
Like them or loathe them the snp mps are standing up for 'scotland' (or atleast their misheld scottish beliefs) u really could do with a few more MP's or MEP's really blindly standing up for their beliefs/country over brexit cos at the moment we're all going to get shafted royally
But wot i was trying to get at is why have u never objected previously to the 40 odd scots labour MP's previously??
They could potentially wield far more power over westminster than the snp ever will, hell until this term (or possibly last term, basically under salmond) the snp had a policy of not voting on english only matters. The scots Labour mp's would not be doing the same, so if u vote tory it would actually be benefical to have more snp mp's.
Also 4HM u like me may not care for her or her politics but she stands up for them and is blinkered on her goals no matter wot anyone other than the swivel eyed lunatics in her party think..
May hasn't got a clue wot she wants, never mind wot her party wants and is flip flopping all over the place to me eyes there almost polar oppisates
Like them or loathe them the snp mps are standing up for 'scotland' (or atleast their misheld scottish beliefs) u really could do with a few more MP's or MEP's really blindly standing up for their beliefs/country over brexit cos at the moment we're all going to get shafted royally
The only reason that we will get „shafted royally „ as you put it is because half the 52 % of the voters in 2016 voted to leave the worlds largest economy , one which we had and currently still do have a phenomenal amount of power and influence in and can continue to have if we were to stay , in favour of leaving it and attempting to trade on WTO rules alone as the only country in the world that doesn’t even have any trade agreements in place.
Great!
The thing that saddens me is that there were so many lies made to people about the benefits of leaving the EU before the referendum. Theresa Mays deal is the best deal that can be got, the EU hasn’t changed it’s stance on this for nearly 3 years, and that’s in part largely because we the UK , a great country and world leader, were influential in forming the EU and creating the rules of conduct that we and all the other 27 nations must follow in the case of a country leaving.
Our present deal is, on all sides of the debate, better than Theresa mays deal and light years better than a no deal.
Why give up power and influence and wealth in favour of hardship and pointless economic disaster ?
This is not a an EU hates the UK problem, its a EU protects its own members- indeed, we are still one of those at present.
Kindest regards, Olaf
tackb
Well-Known Member
this is supposition on your and all the other remainers parts , the truth is all the predictions have been proved to be untrue so far so why all of a sudden are yours correct ?
for me the vote has been done , you can bleat on about a second referendum if you like but that will create so many problems in my opinion we will end up in a terrible place.
we know what it's like to be in the eu , we were in it for 40 years ! we don't know how we will get on outside , that's facts! we could prosper or we could fail , it's ultimately up to us when we leave. I personally think we will prosper , i'm also of the opinion that the eu is a failing project , just look at the goings on over there at the moment , if you research outside our biased media you will see a lot of discontent in the eu.
my only worry is the type of unrest that is happening at the moment everywhere gives oxygen to the more extreme politics and we don't need to go far back in history to see what the potential problems are if that happens , and if you think for one second that ignoring the vote as it stands which is what you are proposing will calm the situation down then you are sorely mistaken!
my advice to you is to support our exit from the eu , make every effort to make it a success , then and only then start campaigning for a referendum to re-join the eu , for democracy to stand we must implement the vote as it stands !
personally I think the eu must shoulder a large proportion of the blame for this with it's attitude , if they had at least listened to DC and worked with him then the referendum may never have happened , but to just laugh and send him home I think caused many people to dislike them and their subsequent behaviour has in my opinion been shocking , we are one of the major contributors to their project and I think they have displayed shocking arrogance and treated our leader whether you like her or not in a disgusting manner. I could go on but i'm sure you'll already be preparing to counter all this with more suppositions and scaremongering , it doesn't scare me I am relishing leaving.
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
As am I!
It's funny how those who wish to remain suddenly see conspiracy and disaster lurking around every bush, isn't it?
I voted for Independence, and was heartbroken when the vote went against my most fervent wishes. My first instinct wasn't to cry foul and demand another referendum though. I took the outcome as disappointing, but the result of a democratic vote.
It's written in law that the UK is to leave the EU on March 29th. Time some folk got over themselves and quit bleating about it . . . .
We are not one of the major contributors to „their „ project. We are are a founding members and hold pivtol Positions within the EU as members , that are backed up by EU laws that our governments have been instrumental in forming .
Why give away our best hand ?
Kindest regards, Olaf
That's not been very evident in the last few months, though.
The one thing about all these individual parties (Excluding Tory, Labour, Liberal)that continually amuses me is their names.
Plaid Cwymru : Welsh National party, Wonderful.
Seinn Fein: Irish National party, Wonderful
Scottish National Party: Again wonderful
All most respectable.
If an English National party should appear, it would be Fascist, Racist, Anti Islam and anything else the others would throw at it. Now Fair's fair isn't it?
deeangeo
Well-Known Member
Nope, we’re not and never were ‘Founding members’. With great reluctance the UK was eventally admitted to the Common Market. Just about every change from there, EEC to EU was steamrollered through by our various political leaders. Joe public were barely told any significant detail in a layman sort of way.
Roro
Well-Known Member
Its Globalism people are ****ed off at, its not just the Uk either, its happening world wide, even in America with the voting in of Trump. Whoever thought we would see the return of some very rightwing parties to the German parliament, as well as the austrian, Swedish, Italian, Polish, Hungarian, French and Belgian parliaments too, not to mention the riots in Paris over the past month.
Roro
Well-Known Member
Correct, the eu/eec decends from the franco-german steel and coal organisation. Charles de Gaulle knocked back Britains application for membership not once but twice. So hardly a founding member.
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
To be honest there were so many lies told on both sides olaf i don't think any side can take any moral high ground.
Ur obviously pro staying BUT if u had a choice to vote to go into the EU the way it is now (ie not just a mutal free trade area, but with massive political aspirations) would u vote to join??
Even most remainers usually start of by saying the EU is not perfect etc, when was the last time it had its accounts signed off??? They should be locking many of them up for fraud/corruption.
We've had decades to attempt to change it from the inside, it will never happen, we have very litttle actual power/say and it only takes 1/2 countries to go agaist our opinion which alwaysseems to be the way, and its dead in the water
There is very little solidarity from the french over anything, it wasn't that long ago they were burning farmers llivestock alive in their trailers, not something an ally should stand back and allow
At the simpliest layer its 1 extra tier of parasites our taxes have to pay for.
I already pay for 2 tiers with Holyrood and westminster (3 if u count local council level) al their doing is taking taxes and creating absolutley nothing for it and just making life harder for the taxpaying companies, the only folk that benefit from the EU in it's present form are politicains and the civil servants serving it, all completely needless really
Funny woodsmoke i thought i was 1 of the few scots who voted for independance but hates the snp and voted to leave europe too.
Ur obviously pro staying BUT if u had a choice to vote to go into the EU the way it is now (ie not just a mutal free trade area, but with massive political aspirations) would u vote to join??
Even most remainers usually start of by saying the EU is not perfect etc, when was the last time it had its accounts signed off??? They should be locking many of them up for fraud/corruption.
We've had decades to attempt to change it from the inside, it will never happen, we have very litttle actual power/say and it only takes 1/2 countries to go agaist our opinion which alwaysseems to be the way, and its dead in the water
There is very little solidarity from the french over anything, it wasn't that long ago they were burning farmers llivestock alive in their trailers, not something an ally should stand back and allow
At the simpliest layer its 1 extra tier of parasites our taxes have to pay for.
I already pay for 2 tiers with Holyrood and westminster (3 if u count local council level) al their doing is taking taxes and creating absolutley nothing for it and just making life harder for the taxpaying companies, the only folk that benefit from the EU in it's present form are politicains and the civil servants serving it, all completely needless really
Funny woodsmoke i thought i was 1 of the few scots who voted for independance but hates the snp and voted to leave europe too.
I voted "remain" as all the problems we are having leaving were written on the wall two years ago. It was always going to be a clusterf**k and that's exactly whats playing out now. Far less risk involved in remaining than leaving.
I fail to understand the logic employed by all the leavers in saying that another referendum would be undemocratic. Surely asking the country to vote again now they understand the deal on the table and are not being fed fantasy and lies of how rosy it might look is the most democratic way of moving forward. The Leavers are basically just afraid of a change of mind that will not suit their views.
However I'm resigned to leaving, the EU are corrupt anyway, and I will make the best of it, but the deal on the table is horrible. We don't really get to leave, we end up doing what we're told to on the outside with no seat at the table to influence anything. If you think it's bad now just wait until they bend us over the table on the trade negotiations - that hasn't even started yet and will be another two years of all sorts of pain. If we're going to take the massive risk of getting out lets do it properly and exit hard. We will have 5 to 10 years of pain but we will have the opportunity in the long term to build ourselves back up again and might end up in a better place, possibly. The EU might even fall apart in the meantime in which case we will be better outside it.
I don't blame May for the issues, she was given a hospital pass and was always going to be the fall guy. I doubt Rees Mogg and his cronies or Corbyn would have come back with anything different as the EU have all the cards and we have little to negotiate with. I blame Cameron. We vote our politicians in because we trust them to make informed decisions on our behalf (yes I know, but that's the theory of why we vote for them). Cameron selfishly (I would call it criminally) abdicated that responsibility to get himself voted back in again because UKIP and Farage were breathing down his neck. The British people made a predictable emotional decision rather than an informed one because there were no facts upon which an informed decision could be made.
Anyway, let's just bloody get on with whatever we decide to do as any decision is better than no decision.
You would never run a business like this!
Rant over.
I fail to understand the logic employed by all the leavers in saying that another referendum would be undemocratic. Surely asking the country to vote again now they understand the deal on the table and are not being fed fantasy and lies of how rosy it might look is the most democratic way of moving forward. The Leavers are basically just afraid of a change of mind that will not suit their views.
However I'm resigned to leaving, the EU are corrupt anyway, and I will make the best of it, but the deal on the table is horrible. We don't really get to leave, we end up doing what we're told to on the outside with no seat at the table to influence anything. If you think it's bad now just wait until they bend us over the table on the trade negotiations - that hasn't even started yet and will be another two years of all sorts of pain. If we're going to take the massive risk of getting out lets do it properly and exit hard. We will have 5 to 10 years of pain but we will have the opportunity in the long term to build ourselves back up again and might end up in a better place, possibly. The EU might even fall apart in the meantime in which case we will be better outside it.
I don't blame May for the issues, she was given a hospital pass and was always going to be the fall guy. I doubt Rees Mogg and his cronies or Corbyn would have come back with anything different as the EU have all the cards and we have little to negotiate with. I blame Cameron. We vote our politicians in because we trust them to make informed decisions on our behalf (yes I know, but that's the theory of why we vote for them). Cameron selfishly (I would call it criminally) abdicated that responsibility to get himself voted back in again because UKIP and Farage were breathing down his neck. The British people made a predictable emotional decision rather than an informed one because there were no facts upon which an informed decision could be made.
Anyway, let's just bloody get on with whatever we decide to do as any decision is better than no decision.
You would never run a business like this!
Rant over.
My frustration is not with those who voted to leave but rather that element that refuse to accept the deal now on the table is indeed "horrible" but simply cannot bring themselves to acknowledge, in any shape or form, that the very issues that informed their vote are all but certain not to be delivered by what's on offer.
Therefore pushing it over the line at any cost may be an acceptable and commendable approach to a game of rugby but not, IMHO, when we it relates to something of such critical importants to this Island's longer term future.
K
countrryboy
Well-Known Member
very good post nigel
My biggest fear is there will be a GE soonish after this disastours brexit, and many traditional tory voters will either not vote as their disgusted with there party or vote UKIP/indpendant and give liebour and that clown corbyn an easy run to no. 10.
I bet tfor many leavers that would be an absolute worst case scenerio, still being europes 'bitch' with corbyn asking for it harder
Now i've thought about it it scares the ***t out of me, as sadly it really may not be that far of the truth
My biggest fear is there will be a GE soonish after this disastours brexit, and many traditional tory voters will either not vote as their disgusted with there party or vote UKIP/indpendant and give liebour and that clown corbyn an easy run to no. 10.
I bet tfor many leavers that would be an absolute worst case scenerio, still being europes 'bitch' with corbyn asking for it harder
Now i've thought about it it scares the ***t out of me, as sadly it really may not be that far of the truth
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