So . . . .

[Woodsmoke]

Has anyone suggested that? I don't think so!

The inference is perfectly clear. If we 'Leavers' just wound our necks in and 'played nice', this issue wouldn't exist.

I consider the majority of arguments against leaving the EU to be extemporised at best, and out-and-out disingenuous at worst. Sure, nobody can foresee what's going to happen, but you can damn well bet those who want to trade with us at the moment sure as hell aren't going to change their minds once we're out of the EU. And to draw a parallel with the Scottish Independence Referendum, those who obfuscated the most proved to be those with the most to lose (i.e: Westminster) The EU is exactly the same. If the UK is such a burden, why are they placing so many obstacles in the way of our leaving? Juncker is acting like a spoiled child who's not being allowed his own way.

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

View attachment 118349

looks to me like we are one of the major contributors ? but what do I know...……..

And at the moment second in the league France is going belly up! so not all wine and roses then after all.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Ps , great thread mate, it’s really interesting to read some of these views on here

It sure is. And regardless of which side of the debate you stand, there are some 'interesting' times ahead

 

[benjrush]

Also note I voted out, not out only if the UK get a deal, I just wanted out by the fastest means possible.

FTFY
As has been said many times in this thread, everyone on both sides voted the way they did for DIFFERENT reasons. To lump all leavers and all remainers in the same boxes is a hilariously simplistic view. There may be others who voted with similar intentions but I can absolutely guarantee that not everyone who voted leave wanted to leave for the same reasons and in the same way as you do.

 

[User00025]

View attachment 118349

looks to me like we are one of the major contributors ? but what do I know...……..

Yep we contribute approx. 50% of what 23 of em do.

 

[User00025]

The inference is perfectly clear. If we 'Leavers' just wound our necks in and 'played nice', this issue wouldn't exist.

I consider the majority of arguments against leaving the EU to be extemporised at best, and out-and-out disingenuous at worst. Sure, nobody can foresee what's going to happen, but you can damn well bet those who want to trade with us at the moment sure as hell aren't going to change their minds once we're out of the EU. And to draw a parallel with the Scottish Independence Referendum, those who obfuscated the most proved to be those with the most to lose (i.e: Westminster) The EU is exactly the same. If the UK is such a burden, why are they placing so many obstacles in the way of our leaving? Juncker is acting like a spoiled child who's not being allowed his own way.

If I knew what all them words meant I think I might give you a like.

 

[Woodsmoke]

If I knew what all them words meant I think I might give you a like.

 

[tackb]

We have equal say , despite paying more than many others, because we make much more than many other countries in the EU through being members of the worlds largest economy . Much the same as how our voting system in the UK works , just because you earn lots of money, your not given 4 votes whereas a poor person gets none !
. However, the amount a member pays is based upon the trading benefits that they have had from sharing a massive free trade portfolio with very competitive WTO agreed Tarifs.
Something that you may not have noticed is that EU membership entities us to free trade trade with all of its members and on very competitive terms with many WTO members that it has trade agreements with.
Within the UN there are 193 country’s, of them , only 35 are are classed as advanced economies , and of them 27 of those are in Europe.
Kindest regards, Olaf

so because we make more through our own efforts using the same set of rules as the poorer countries we have to pay more , your post kind of contradicts itself to be honest , you want all of the eu nations to be equal yet we don't all pay equal , you can't pick and choose what equalities you want and be equal.

one thing I do agree with you on is trading under wto rules will be fine , oh and our frankly useless government has squandered over two years , I believe we should be making deals for those last two years so when we leave and we have to if we respect democracy , we will have a head start.

we have been let down by incompetent remain negotiators.

 

[Heimdall]

one thing I do agree with you on is trading under wto rules will be fine , oh and our frankly useless government has squandered over two years , I believe we should be making deals for those last two years so when we leave and we have to if we respect democracy , we will have a head start.

we have been let down by incompetent remain negotiators.

If i want to make a financial deal for anything i dont start at what would i accept for my lowest offer and point out any flaws . Our politicians have let us down big time, not only TM but all of them. They all just want to play politics and not look at the bigger picture. A decision was made by the people of the uk and thats not up for debate. All should try to assist in getting the best deal for the UK.

 

[Olaf]

so because we make more through our own efforts using the same set of rules as the poorer countries we have to pay more , your post kind of contradicts itself to be honest , you want all of the eu nations to be equal yet we don't all pay equal , you can't pick and choose what equalities you want and be equal.

one thing I do agree with you on is trading under wto rules will be fine , oh and our frankly useless government has squandered over two years , I believe we should be making deals for those last two years so when we leave and we have to if we respect democracy , we will have a head start.

we have been let down by incompetent remain negotiators.

So does that mean that a uk billionaire should pay less tax to our government than one of their employees on a minimum wage zero hr contract because they make more through their own efforts using the same set of rules as their employee ?
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[tackb]

So does that mean that a uk billionaire should pay less tax to our government than one of their employees on a minimum wage zero hr contract because they make more through their own efforts using the same set of rules as their employee ?
Kindest regards, Olaf

no , stop being childish and evasive.

I do believe that taxation is wrong in it's current form , I believe tax should be equal in so much as everyone pays say 25% regardless of earnings that way the bigger earners are paying more but can't really complain because we all pay the same percentage. but this isn't relevant to the current argument.

so how do you think the eu will feel when they lose our contribution ? will it materially affect them? and what will happen if france is allowed to vote and they vote to leave ?

three questions there for you , all fairly simple I think.

 

[Heimdall]

I dont only think France but many others. all waiting to see what happens with the uk. Belgium ,Ireland, Italy, Netheland, all pay quite a large some to the EU per head of population

 

[benjrush]

I do believe that taxation is wrong in it's current form , I believe tax should be equal in so much as everyone pays say 25% regardless of earnings that way the bigger earners are paying more but can't really complain because we all pay the same percentage. but this isn't relevant to the current argument.

so you believe in a flat percentage rate of taxation. By that method lets take Slovenia as an example and assume that EU contributions are essentially a tax. They have a GDP of 43.77 Billion USD which is 59 times smaller than ours at 2.622 Trillion USD. Slovenia pay in 0.32% of the EU budget so if we were to pay our share based on a flat percentage rate then we should be paying in 0.32x59 = 18.88%.
hang on...we only pay in 13.45% turns out if you are one of the big players in the club and making up the rules then you get to pay less. Seems about the same as domestic taxation come to think about it.

Not saying you are wrong about flat rate taxation though.

 

[tackb]

so you believe in a flat percentage rate of taxation. By that method lets take Slovenia as an example and assume that EU contributions are essentially a tax. They have a GDP of 43.77 Billion USD which is 59 times smaller than ours at 2.622 Trillion USD. Slovenia pay in 0.32% of the EU budget so if we were to pay our share based on a flat percentage rate then we should be paying in 0.32x59 = 18.88%.
hang on...we only pay in 13.45% turns out if you are one of the big players in the club and making up the rules then you get to pay less. Seems about the same as domestic taxation come to think about it.

Not saying you are wrong about flat rate taxation though.

I was referring to personal tax and as stated not relevant to the current conversation. so you've answered what you want and ignored what was stated , are you a politician by any chance?

 

[benjrush]

It is relevant, you are just choosing to ignore it because it doesn't suit your argument...much like a politician.

Nothing wrong with drawing parallels between systems of taxation and voting be it on a personal or a country level and what we seem to see as ok in some places and not others

 

[tackb]

It is relevant, you are just choosing to ignore it because it doesn't suit your argument...much like a politician.

Nothing wrong with drawing parallels between systems of taxation and voting be it on a personal or a country level and what we seem to see as ok in some places and not others

I didn't ignore it but as I stated earlier it wasn't relevant , but since you insist , i think the best would be to pay zero into the eu. there's a straight forward answer for you.

 

[benjrush]

the kind of answer I like
zero in...zero votes.
percentage in... 1 vote
simple

 

[Olaf]

no , stop being childish and evasive.

I do believe that taxation is wrong in it's current form , I believe tax should be equal in so much as everyone pays say 25% regardless of earnings that way the bigger earners are paying more but can't really complain because we all pay the same percentage. but this isn't relevant to the current argument.

so how do you think the eu will feel when they lose our contribution ? will it materially affect them? and what will happen if france is allowed to vote and they vote to leave ?

three questions there for you , all fairly simple I think.

Uk leaving will be negative for the Eu but it will still be the worlds largest economy and it’s members will be better off than us. If France left, one would have to see what terms they left under. I doubt that they would, especially when they see what we are about to experience.
Kindest regards, Olaf

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

No one knows what lies ahead if we did we would all be clairevioant, but france at the minute is screwed up so the( french peoples) will be to preoccupied to give us a second glance, I don,t know what experience we are going to go through but if the last forty odd years are anything to go by ,bring it on! speaking for myself i cant wait to get out i,m sick to the back teeth of eu this and eu that. i live in GB. and i want my country back for better or worse.

 

[Olaf]

so you believe in a flat percentage rate of taxation. By that method lets take Slovenia as an example and assume that EU contributions are essentially a tax. They have a GDP of 43.77 Billion USD which is 59 times smaller than ours at 2.622 Trillion USD. Slovenia pay in 0.32% of the EU budget so if we were to pay our share based on a flat percentage rate then we should be paying in 0.32x59 = 18.88%.
hang on...we only pay in 13.45% turns out if you are one of the big players in the club and making up the rules then you get to pay less. Seems about the same as domestic taxation come to think about it.

Not saying you are wrong about flat rate taxation though.

Thank you for taking the time to illustrate this simple fact.
Kindest regards, Olaf