So . . . .

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Olaf

Well-Known Member
That’s just rubbish.
Yes it all started out as the Common Market, a purely trade non tarriff arrangement which was fine.

Progressively it has become much more invasive via EEC and now EU, with Brussels interference in UK matters taking priority and their goal of achieving a Federal States of Europe.
I want none of that.

Frankly I’d be happy with simply trade and security (Police/terrorism related) not an EU army and certainly no judicial superiority over British law rulings arrangements.

We’re not part of the EU currency system or Shengen arrangement, so our border controls should be staffed and controlled appropriately. Our politicians for what the shower are worth, need to focus on important matters and effectively fund infrastructure, police, nhs, borders, national security and utilise funds that would not be paid to the EU when we’re out.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
Well that just about sums up Brussels and the EU .. ..
Bollox to democracy & shaft the UK taxpayers!

It costs the UK £175.00 per person per year to pay for EU membership

The expected cost of Brexit for the average UK citizen is £1500.00 per year

I fail to see any other conclusion than Brexit voters have screwed the UK tax payers?

The EU parliament is democratically elected? Policies handed to the EU parliament by the EU commission, are democratically voted on by the democratically elected MEPs who have oversite on the EU commission ? So not quite sure where the loss of democracy come in either.

Did you not vote for your MEP?
 

deeangeo

Well-Known Member
It costs the UK £175.00 per person per year to pay for EU membership

The expected cost of Brexit for the average UK citizen is £1500.00 per year ??? and this calculation is just a guess at best since no one, not anyone, has a clue what our exit from the EU will bring

I fail to see any other conclusion than Brexit voters have screwed the UK tax payers? - British politicians do this to UK citizens every day and I see no reason for external politicians to have their noses in the trough too.

The EU parliament is democratically elected? Policies handed to the EU parliament by the EU commission, are democratically voted on by the democratically elected MEPs who have oversite on the EU commission ? So not quite sure where the loss of democracy come in either. MEP's are elected however those in the driving seat in Brussels are not.

Did you not vote for your MEP? No, I abstained. I have many years ago determined the EU to be an un-affordable white elephant interested only in its' own growth and power.
I will
never support any EU/Brussels dominance. Trade and national security co-operation are different and worthwhile, the rest is a power grab.
 

The fourth Horseman

Well-Known Member
I see, so your after Anarchy?

A return to the pure Darwinist state of "survival of the fittest death to the week? "

Get rid of employment law, feminism, equal rights, health and safety, environmental responsibility, human rights?

Al in all a far more Victorian England? No?

Tell me what EU rules exactly do you find so offensive?

Wow you found me out!!!!
My business model is based on return of investment, so I have nothing to lose post Brexit. I purchased another property just before Christmas in arguably "top of the market" conditions but Ill clear 10% on it and thats all that matters.

If theres a property melt down, ill be one of the people making money out of it, but id still spare a thought for the poor disposed people. I have a small portfolio of 10 rental properties but Id be happy to put anyone in touch with any of my tenants and have them ask what I am like. I look after the ones who look after me and do their best. I come down like a ton of bricks on the scroungers who just try it on.

Ill take advantage of the conditions that present themselves to me but I WILL NOT do things to manipulate those conditions in my favour at the expense of less fortunate people. I wont even take advantage of existing conditions which exploit people

I have had EX friends who brought up whole streets of houses up north and filled them full to capacity with Asylum seekers living in awful conditions with no means of fighting back. They have literaly made millions of pounds doing this, but it makes me sic to even think about it. My moral high ground has no doubt cost me a few quid over the years but at least I can sleep OK.

I hope the Brexit voters presumed morel high ground allows them to sleep OK when they start to fully appreciate the suffering they will have forced up on working class and poor people

In all likely hood they wont accept the responsibility and will just blame someone else for what is in fact their own doing. A bit like they blame the EU for just about everything now.


And dont be too happy about property prices falling and allowing you to enlarge your portfolio. The govt has lined up Private landlords as a soft target for screwing over for tax to pay for Brexit. We have been hit hard in the last tow years and its going to get worse. And if you reely are in the property game you will be well aware that a property crash is when the banks sphincters go tight and funding becomes impossible and / or expensive

So careful what you wish for
It costs the UK £175.00 per person per year to pay for EU membership

The expected cost of Brexit for the average UK citizen is £1500.00 per year

I fail to see any other conclusion than Brexit voters have screwed the UK tax payers?

The EU parliament is democratically elected? Policies handed to the EU parliament by the EU commission, are democratically voted on by the democratically elected MEPs who have oversite on the EU commission ? So not quite sure where the loss of democracy come in either.

Did you not vote for your MEP?

I still don't think you understand the situation at all. You say the Brexit voters have screwed the working class, the poor and the tax payers. Man up the poor and the working class ARE THE BREXIT VOTERS. All those I know wanted clean break straight away.
 

tackb

Well-Known Member
At present ,in my opinion, our best option is that we cancel article 50. we should take advantage of the trading platform and power that we have in the worlds largest economy , take advantage of the awareness that the UK Population now has on how important our individual voting rights are in the EU elections, and the UK elections; and make Britain a Great Britain again.
We can always leave when we have shipping companies that actually have ships and and industry that can put shipping containers full of our products on their decks.
At present we are a service based economy and We need to be more than that with no trade deals in place under WTO rules.
Kindest regards, Olaf
finally , hidden in all that guff an admission that you are a remainer !

life would be much better all round if people were just honest...………...
 

benjrush

Well-Known Member
MP's are elected to represent their constituency in parliament. 242 of the 650 constituencies voted to remain meaning that there should be 242 MP's trying to oppose brexit and represent the views of the people that elected them to office. The fact that we have had a general election since the referendum muddies the waters a bit but does not mean that every MP should suddenly get in line.
 

bowji john

Well-Known Member
Which of course is totally true. Look and Hungary as an example of that

A federal Europe is inevitable, its the ONLY way to be able to stand up to China & the USA which is why of course China and the USA are trying so hard to stop it happening.

wow betide the UK if they are not part of it when it does.
I think Chasey, for me, has captured the very nub of the issue

This is why I'm so staunchly exit

I have been fortunate to live in Africa, the US (I married an American) and my adopted country of the UK

In each I have found elements of culture(s) I can/could live with

However (and this is a purely personal position) I cannot conceive, and would find untenable, a UK that sided with Germany etc against America

For all its faults America embraces cultural elements I can live with - not so with mainland Europe
 
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Hornet 6

Well-Known Member
We can leave the EU, they are not stopping us. indeed, I’d be completely happy to cancel our EU membership and give away our power in the largest economy in the world if wasn’t for the fact that leaving will destroy our country at this point in time. Why give up power and economic freedoms?
Kindest regards, Olaf
If leaving was so simple, (and to me it is) why are we still in ?
Personally I think we are still in because the sore losers are still in charge, but they tell us we can't just pick our ball up and go home.
Leaving the EU the day after the vote was as easy as saying, we reject all EU imposed laws, we are now in control of our borders, all failed asylum seekers, and all non working immigrants will be evicted as of now. Holiday makers and people travelling here on business will carry comprehensive heath cover. Most importantly you, the EU have already received our final payment.
But that didn't happen, because the re-mainers decided to **** it all up for everyone for all time :mad:
So much for democracy.

Neil.
 

Hornet 6

Well-Known Member
To July 2016 the UK had supported and voted in favour of (without objection) 98.3% of all EU directives

So basically WTF are you taking about
No, we voted for or against nothing, the bandits in charge did the voting without asking us, which is how we were included in this mess in the first place.

What you and many others don't, won't or can't understand is there exists a huge group who just don't give a damn about the money, they just want our independence back.

Neil.
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
If leaving was so simple, (and to me it is) why are we still in ?
Personally I think we are still in because the sore losers are still in charge, but they tell us we can't just pick our ball up and go home.
Leaving the EU the day after the vote was as easy as saying, we reject all EU imposed laws, we are now in control of our borders, all failed asylum seekers, and all non working immigrants will be evicted as of now. Holiday makers and people travelling here on business will carry comprehensive heath cover. Most importantly you, the EU have already received our final payment.
But that didn't happen, because the re-mainers decided to **** it all up for everyone for all time :mad:
So much for democracy.

Neil.
I’m sorry that you feel so cheated mate. If you believed that what you have just written was going to happen when you placed your vote to leave then you really did get misled by the leave campaign.
The reason why the UK is still a full member of the EU is because our government has spent the past 2.5 years trying to deliver a Brexit deal that will not completely destroy the prosperity of our country and one that meets the leave campaigns fantastic but utterly unrealistic promises. And, as it’s plain for the entire world to see, the government has not been able to deliver anything that is even half as good as what we currently do Still have and can keep.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 

Woodsmoke

Well-Known Member
The reason why the UK is still a full member of the EU is because our government has spent the past 2.5 years trying to deliver a Brexit deal
But they haven't really. Have they? What they have done is sweet Fanny Adams over the last two and a half years in the hope that the issue will go away. And I'm pretty certain Treesa was counting on being booted out following the vote on her leadership so she could hold her hands up and say 'Well, I tried my best' while walking away and leaving the whole sorry mess (of her own bloody making!) to some other poor sap to sort out . . . . .

As it is, she's been left holding the baby, and is now scurrying about in desperation trying to do something, anything, that will get her out of the neck-deep pile of ordure she was only too happy to leave for somebody else to deal with.

I voted Leave. I wasn't subject to any campaign (in fact, I really can't remember there actually was one, now I think on it? Or perhaps I, along with hundreds of thousands of others, merely chose to make our own minds up about the prospect of freeing the country from the clutches of a European superstate that wouldn't even exist were it not for the UK in the first place) I didn't worry about trade deals, passports, the exchange rate, the sky falling-in, or any of the myriad of issues that only NOW seem to be causing such upheaval. What I DID expect was for our fearless leaders to actually take ownership of the task they'd been entrusted with, and accept that their responsibility was to ensure that the democratic will of the majority country was represented to the very best of their ability
 

finnbear270

Well-Known Member
The EU issue grew out of a silent slitherering behind the scenes move by a Mr Heath, no one I know has had a vote on joining anything resembling what we have now, the only set up
I thought a good idea was a common market, nothing more.
 

Olaf

Well-Known Member
But they haven't really. Have they? What they have done is sweet Fanny Adams over the last two and a half years in the hope that the issue will go away. And I'm pretty certain Treesa was counting on being booted out following the vote on her leadership so she could hold her hands up and say 'Well, I tried my best' while walking away and leaving the whole sorry mess (of her own bloody making!) to some other poor sap to sort out . . . . .

As it is, she's been left holding the baby, and is now scurrying about in desperation trying to do something, anything, that will get her out of the neck-deep pile of ordure she was only too happy to leave for somebody else to deal with.

I voted Leave. I wasn't subject to any campaign (in fact, I really can't remember there actually was one, now I think on it? Or perhaps I, along with hundreds of thousands of others, merely chose to make our own minds up about the prospect of freeing the country from the clutches of a European superstate that wouldn't even exist were it not for the UK in the first place) I didn't worry about trade deals, passports, the exchange rate, the sky falling-in, or any of the myriad of issues that only NOW seem to be causing such upheaval. What I DID expect was for our fearless leaders to actually take ownership of the task they'd been entrusted with, and accept that their responsibility was to ensure that the democratic will of the majority country was represented to the very best of their ability
They have indeed been trying (and I agree with you entirely that they haven’t been negotiating very well, and that’s putting it mildly) but neither they ,or anyone else , was ever going to be able to deliver a Brexit that would meet the promises that most leave voters believed were possible back in 2016.
The whole thing is an absolute shambles and it’s not the fault of the people who voted leave ( indeed I think that they have actually done some very positive things by causing so much of a shake up) and it’s not the fault of people who voted to remain as they were just as entitled to their opinion and voice and still are.
Whatever our government hoped to achieve is completely irrelevant now in my opinion, what’s important is choosing a path that creates more prosperity and wealth and freedom. I just hope that we get a final say on whatever options there are in the end, as, this whole fiasco is millions of light years away from what millions and millions of people thought they might actually achieve with their voting.
Kindest regards, Olaf
 
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