So . . . .

Olaf

Well-Known Member

Chasey

Well-Known Member
Does any one remember life before super markets? You know the Butcher the baker the veg shop?

All gone now as supermarkets have massive buying power and can control the market they have arguably destroyed the small suppliers and many many people were / are upset about that, but lets face it we all shop in super markets now.

The only competition for supermarkets, is other supermarkets and the big boys usualy win.

The high street is dead because of the Internet. Shops cant compete with Amazon & Googal

Again many dont like it and Amazon / Googal are seriously flawed and hated by many, but the genie simply cant be put back in the bottle


Thats just like the EU

We are global now, we need to be thinking global and functioning globally. We need to be part of the EU to stand up against the other BIG global powers in trade & commerce

Failure to accept this and pretend the UK can be a major player as a specialist corner shop, is just futile
 

Roro

Well-Known Member
Thats just like the EU

We are global now, we need to be thinking global and functioning globally. We need to be part of the EU to stand up against the other BIG global powers in trade & commerce

Failure to accept this and pretend the UK can be a major player as a specialist corner shop, is just futile

I have been reading books about one of my interests, the industrial revolution, Britain made and exported goods all over the world for the last 200+ years, its always been global.
 

Roro

Well-Known Member
Norton Motorcycles lands £20 MILLION Japanese export deal. 200 UK jobs. 1,000 bikes. 5 years. - MoreBikes
Just the start for Norton and people keep saying we have nothing to offer but there are lots of stories like this and manufacturing is far from dead here, people need to get a grip and get on with leaving

Great news, i hope they go from strength to strength. Triumph are doing well too, they have opened a visitor centre in Hinckley, i'll have to do a pilgrimage one weekend.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member

Chasey

Well-Known Member
I have been reading books about one of my interests, the industrial revolution, Britain made and exported goods all over the world for the last 200+ years, its always been global.

Ill try and resist exasperation at such coments but NOTHING was global till we had the internet.

There were trade routs yes. East India Company etc etc. but you as a single human didn't buy something from India and have it delivered to your door a week later.

To try and compare world trade today with world trade even 50 years ago, is ridiculous.
 
Frankly the way things are panning out in France at the moment I think they have more problems on the horizon. As far as countries like Italy, Spain and Greece all of their economies are on the verge of going over the edge, and then we have Spain crying because they want Gibralter back. Not to mention other countries such as Turkey wanting in, which will cause even more issues with immigration.
Have a little faith in your country, GB has stood on its own many times before, and we are still here. The sky is not going to fall in, and the sun will still come up tomorrow.
 
Frankly the way things are panning out in France at the moment I think they have more problems on the horizon. As far as countries like Italy, Spain and Greece all of their economies are on the verge of going over the edge, and then we have Spain crying because they want Gibralter back. Not to mention other countries such as Turkey wanting in, which will cause even more issues with immigration.
Have a little faith in your country, GB has stood on its own many times before, and we are still here. The sky is not going to fall in, and the sun will still come up tomorrow.
Yup, politicians aside, we should have a LOT of faith in our country to stand separate from the EU in most matters.
The EU will still want reciprocal trade and national security co-operation of both EU members as well as with the UK.
If tarriffs are the way forward, well they're not new to any country. They still exist in trade with the UK and other countries and neither will contact with EU member countires fall by the wayside.
It will all just be somewhat different.
So, is 'different' what some people are apprehensive/scared of?
I simply cannot see any reason why we should not just walk away from EU interference and manage our own affairs.
It will be 'Different', not the end of the world.
 
So let me please get this right:

You object to circa 48% of the population seeking to minimise what they see as the unnecessary negatives within our exit from the EU because it doesn't concur with your preffred approach?

Let's imagine there was a referendum to ban the private ownership of firearms for all but the yet to be defined "professional" vermin controler, and the vote went in favour of such.

Would you go gently into that good night that is accepting the "will of the people" or would you rage against the dying of the light with a passion and guile you feel should be denied to so-called Brexit "remainers"?

And by raging I mean seek to limit or overturn the final detail of the legislation that determines who will or will not retain their 22 Hornet.

K
I object to the minority trying to de-rail the majority, 48% voted in, 52% voted out, the out vote was the majority, is that clear enough for you.
As for a firearms ban, I'd not like it (to put it mildly), but see little to no point in trying to fight it, shooters have tried that twice already, a third time would work just as well.
In a democracy it is (should be) the majority who carry the day, a referendum on shooting would see shooting banned straight away.

Neil.

PS: I'll not bother answering the residue 'expert' re-moaner, he is still dragging the same crap up, still insisting that anyone who voted out was brainwashed.
For myself, and I suspect many others, the vote to leave was spontaneous and had nothing to do with the political lies put about by by both sides, but mainly the remainers, who used millions of our £ to spread lies. That in it's self should have seen each and every remainer removed from office.
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
Frankly the way things are panning out in France at the moment I think they have more problems on the horizon. As far as countries like Italy, Spain and Greece all of their economies are on the verge of going over the edge, and then we have Spain crying because they want Gibralter back. Not to mention other countries such as Turkey wanting in, which will cause even more issues with immigration.
Have a little faith in your country, GB has stood on its own many times before, and we are still here. The sky is not going to fall in, and the sun will still come up tomorrow.

As a property owner and often resident in Turkey since 2007 can I please dispel any thoughts that Turkey wants in to the EU. Turkey is a very wealthy country, technically very advanced, resource rich with its largest exports being commercial viechiels, motor parts and high end electronics. It had its chance to enter in 2010 but there was little support from the Turkish people mainly due to the fact they had so little to gain and so much to lose.

And as someone with a basic understanding of the entrance conditions for the EU, can I also say that they were not meeting the criteria before the fake coup and now they are about as far away from the criteria as North Korea. You dont set up a dictatorship, imprison and or execute your political opponents, then join the EU. Much as the EU was desperate to cut corners to bring in a soft Muslim country, that ship has well and truly sailed.

However not for the UK

The UK is Turkeys 10th largest supplier of goods with trade from the UK being worth nearly 7 Billion a year

Post Brexit it would be prudent of the UK to negotiate a free trade deel with Turkey (similar to the one Turkey has with the EU) which could include free movement of people? We would not be constrained by the human rights issues which prevent the EU offering membership and lets face it we will be desperate to protect our current exports.

SO whilst in the EU theres pretty much zero chance of Turkey becoming a member and allowing free movement of people into the UK. Post Brexit theres every chance it will happen as we scramble to negotiate deals.

Finally, theres another issue about us being supposedly flooded with Turks?

Why?

The pay levels in Turkey are pretty much on a par with the UK? I have employed enough tradesmen in the last 11 years of owning property there to know their day rate is on a par with the UK.

Yes there are large areas in central Turkey with impoverished people but if they want better lives there are many many options within Turkish borders to better themselves without the language issues or the threat of violence from Muslim haters.

The cost of living in Turkey is also similar to the UK. Petrol / Electricity is more expensive food is about the same from Supermarkets, VAT is 18% import duty on cars makes then about 20 -30% more expensive than in the UK. property prices in thriving city's are similar to the UK

It is hard for someone who's spent a LOT of time out there to understand the benefit people perceive of leaving Turkey and working in the UK?

Which perhaps explains why the general population of Turkey do not want to be in the EU

With their major trading partners being EU, (of which its two main EU clients are Germany 10% UK 6%) China and Russia and having set up a EU free trade agreement in 1996 which was being reviewed for expansion on 2016 (with the exception of agricultural products) and having set up membership of the Mediterranean Free trade deal, theres no obvious reason



In short the invasion of Turkish workers is right up there with the 350million a week for the NHS in terms of fake news
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
Yup, politicians aside, we should have a LOT of faith in our country to stand separate from the EU in most matters.
The EU will still want reciprocal trade and national security co-operation of both EU members as well as with the UK.
If tarriffs are the way forward, well they're not new to any country. They still exist in trade with the UK and other countries and neither will contact with EU member countires fall by the wayside.
It will all just be somewhat different.
So, is 'different' what some people are apprehensive/scared of?
I simply cannot see any reason why we should not just walk away from EU interference and manage our own affairs.
It will be 'Different', not the end of the world.

I totally agree it will be possable to survive outside the EU in some form

However we will be less powerful, less influential, less safe, more restricted, more under the control of the EU and we will be significantly poorer as a result

This is what I am scared of.

Inside the EU we had some measure of power and control over the future of Europe and our place in that future. We were so powerful in that position we had far and away the best deel of ANY EU member with the highest level of opt outs and veto's.

Having lost all that benefit we will be at the mercy of our largest trading partners whim.

I am admittedly not an expert in neoliberal economics, but I do have a basic understanding of the working principles and I can not see any other outcome. My wife is far more educated in the matter having a 1st in International Finance and regular interaction in high level trade negotiations like Davos etc, and neither can she.
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
A few years ago, I was working with a brickie who was in the local rugby club when it went to Germany for the OktoberFest. When he came back I asked him if he heard any good jokes, knowing the lack of German humour. He said there was only one that Brits would laugh at. "They're going to give Turks the vote(The Turkish 'guest workers), either Dachau or Auschwitz"
 

Chasey

Well-Known Member
A few years ago, I was working with a brickie who was in the local rugby club when it went to Germany for the OktoberFest. When he came back I asked him if he heard any good jokes, knowing the lack of German humour. He said there was only one that Brits would laugh at. "They're going to give Turks the vote(The Turkish 'guest workers), either Dachau or Auschwitz"

You see?

Would you as a Turk be gaging to come live in any country whos population were not repulsed by the above sentiment
 
I object to the minority trying to de-rail the majority, 48% voted in, 52% voted out, the out vote was the majority, is that clear enough for you.
As for a firearms ban, I'd not like it (to put it mildly), but see little to no point in trying to fight it, shooters have tried that twice already, a third time would work just as well.
In a democracy it is (should be) the majority who carry the day, a referendum on shooting would see shooting banned straight away.

Neil.
I respect your decision to leave the EU but perhaps not all the accompanying rhetoric that to mind suggests an overly insuler approach to life and, for some SD members, borders on xenophobia.

With regard to your above reply you didn't answer my question which was carefully crafted to permit other than a simple yes or no responce. The way I see it many remainers, but admitely not all, are simply trying to rescue something from the persived negatives of a hard or no deal Brexit, and just as any rifle enthusiast would seek to limit restrictions if faced with my firearms ownership ban scenario.

Admitedly not the perfect analogy but I gave it a shot.

K
 
I totally agree it will be possable to survive outside the EU in some form

However we will be less powerful, less influential, less safe, more restricted, more under the control of the EU and we will be significantly poorer as a result Will we really? You know this 100% for sure?

This is what I am scared of. I don't believe anyone need be apprehensive or scared, it's simply a challenge that we all, as citizens should address.

Inside the EU we had some measure of power and control over the future of Europe and our place in that future. We were so powerful in that position we had far and away the best deel of ANY EU member with the highest level of opt outs and veto's. This arrangement was qualified by the extent of our cash input to the Common Market, EEC & EU. An arrangement that, were we to stay within the EU would in the future see our independent rights as a nation reduced significantly as the EU becomes a Federal State. The ultimate goal of the EU.

Having lost all that benefit we will be at the mercy of our largest trading partners whim. I see no benefit and we will not lose our trade. Neither the EU nor the UK wants to see mutual trade diminished. Our trade partners will also want to blossom as we in the UK do. Only inept politicians and/or business priciples may allow that to happen.

I am admittedly not an expert in neoliberal economics, but I do have a basic understanding of the working principles and I can not see any other outcome. My wife is far more educated in the matter having a 1st in International Finance and regular interaction in high level trade negotiations like Davos etc, and neither can she. God save us all from 'Clever people'. It takes solid effort to make our independence work effectively and I have faith in this country's ability to move forward into the unknown and succeed.
Whatever way you cut it, I have absolute faith in a future for the UK outside the EU and that faith I feel certain will ultimately prove justified.
So much so, I voted to leave the EU.
If politicians make an arse of it they will be voted out of office, a deserving penalty.
But hell, the last thing I want to see is a Corbyn Government.
 
Does any one remember life before super markets? You know the Butcher the baker the veg shop?
In France they still exist. It is illegal for national chain supermarkets to operate stores below a certain size. So there are no One Stop or Local Sainsbury in France. Big supermarkets, hypermarkets, but smaller than that they are all local shops, family owned, even if they display a Franprix or Super-U branding outside. But in truth butcher's counters in French supermarkets sell just as good product in most meats as do small butchers. I can get tongues, horsemeat, pigs brains, all at my big Leclerc. But stuff like tripes, sweetbreads, and other less common stuff my wife might use we go to the big covered St. Denis Market.
 
But hell, the last thing I want to see is a Corbyn Government.
DEEANGEO There's many in the Labour Party too who the last thing they also want to see is a Corbyn Government. OTOH at least Theresa May would be able to say that she wasn't as useless Home Secretary as Diane Abbott will prove to be.

Heck! I reckon even Russ Abbot would be a better Home Secretary than Diane Abbott. As we all know that Russ Abbot loves a PARTY with a HAPPY atmosphere. Unlike the apparent current toxic atmosphere in a Corbyn LABOUR Party.

Abbott and Costello. Abbott and Corbyn. Both comedy double acts. Except we'll likely not find them funny.
 
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